Morals, Christianity, Atheism
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19-11-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 02:50 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 02:34 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Common sense.

That common sense is the serpent hiding in the bush.

What are you like 12 or something close to that? Is this what your church youth group leader tells you to say as part of "Evangelism 101 for the miserable and mindless followers"? You are obviously only here to have some fun by being as obtuse as can be, and see how many rational folks you can piss off. Your mental condition is sad, so sad.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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19-11-2014, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2014 04:08 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 03:32 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Is this what your church youth group leader tells you to say as part of "Evangelism 101 for the miserable and mindless followers"?

No, Evangelism 101 is where they ask you, "Have you ever stolen anything, Have you ever lied, committed adultery." And 102, is where they lie to you, steal your money, and attempt to sleep with you.

Quote:You are obviously only here to have some fun by being as obtuse as can be.

I am here to have fun, but by being as clear as possible about it. Sometimes I like to make a point by ruffling a few feathers, and sometimes I do so all calm and collectively, depending on where the tide comes in from.
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19-11-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:56 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 01:48 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Theists may add caring for their children because they believe god told them that they are obligated to do so.

While theists believe they are obligated by God to do so, why do atheists believe they are obligated to care for them?

At a low level Evolution. Do dogs care about their offspring because they believe in God? Same for the other animals? It's simple self-preservation + species propagation.

Same goes for us, but additionally we have developed intelligence and we understand (note the italics) the duty of caring for our own children. That's what it means to be a responsible adult individual. The fact that there are irresponsible adults is not evidence of the contrary either.

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19-11-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 04:06 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  At a low level Evolution. Do dogs care about their offspring because they believe in God? Same for the other animals? It's simple self-preservation + species propagation.

Yes, you can establish that we care as the result of our evolutions, that leads us to feel that way. But it's the imperceptible movement from an "is" to an "ought" that I am interested in.

Quote:Same goes for us, but additionally we have developed intelligence and we understand (note the italics) the duty of caring for our own children.

Should we take this to mean that if we contemplate our feeling to care, we can recognize that this is not merely a feeling, but this is in fact an obligation, sort of an obligation within us?
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19-11-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 03:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I believe these obligations are rooted in a deeper reality, existing at the core of our inner beings, not to be discarded but recognized.

You can believe whatever you want but I see no evidence of any 'deeper reality'. What you described is based on our having evolved as a social species to the point where our intellect could reason about these things and actually understand why we should care for each other. No "deeper reality" is needed and if you want to prove something else exists your "moral obligations" argument fails miserably.

And that is what is all just common sense.

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19-11-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
If by obligation you mean that it's something "you're supposed to do, that you must do because it's your responsibility", then you can call it an obligation. But the causes of this can be found in nature.

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19-11-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 12:56 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 12:34 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  Has it ever occurred to you that moral obligations are defined by people? It doesn't need a ethereal deity to exist.

Moral obligations requires the existence of something equivalent to an ethereal deity.

Still waiting for you to demonstrate that, kiddo.

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19-11-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 04:17 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 03:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I believe these obligations are rooted in a deeper reality, existing at the core of our inner beings, not to be discarded but recognized.

You can believe whatever you want but I see no evidence of any 'deeper reality'. What you described is based on our having evolved as a social species to the point where our intellect could reason about these things and actually understand why we should care for each other. No "deeper reality" is needed and if you want to prove something else exists your "moral obligations" argument fails miserably.

And that is what is all just common sense.

But returning back to one of your original comments, the obligation which you feel, is one that exists within you, not the product of outside coercion, but intrinsic to the fabric of your own being. All father's have obligations in such a way. Common sense is a recognition that the thing, that nudge, that desire to care, is not just a feeling, but an obligation.

Or does your common sense tell you something differently?
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19-11-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 12:58 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's purely an assertion. state why? Why is that the case?
Because there isn't any other way to establish them.

"Allow me to explain my unproven and bald assertion with another, unproven bald assertion".
The fact you can't think of another explanation and therefore your first explanation is correct is a fallacy and you fucking know it.

It's also not an explanation till you can prove that the explanation you give(god done it y'all) is actually a thing that exists. How do you know it's a god and not pixies? Because you defined your god to include moral obligations? Whoopty-fucking-do.
Fuckin' hell you are slow.

(19-11-2014 01:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you think they can be established some other way, I would like to here it.
Followed up by an attempt to shift the burden of proof. It's not up to us to prove you wrong it's up to YOU to prove you are right. This is fucking kindergarten level thinking you are failing at. Even if we could provide no other way, that does not make your way right by default. It's not correct until you PROVE IT.

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19-11-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus died and rose to save people from punishment for moral crimes.

No he didn't, stop making shit up.Drinking Beverage

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