Morals, Christianity, Atheism
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18-11-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(17-11-2014 11:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  "Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer." -Christopher Hitchens

Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

Discuss.
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18-11-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Except of course where it says to love you neighbor as yourself, and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If we are to follow gawd's example, apparently gawd wants to be stoned, stabbed, drowned, raped, eaten, made a slave, struck down for touching holy objects, and most of all - burned for eternity.

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18-11-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 11:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  "Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer." -Christopher Hitchens

Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

Discuss.

Even assuming that such a statement must be interpreted as construing a universal positive morality, it still wouldn't follow from theism.

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18-11-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 11:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  "Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer." -Christopher Hitchens

Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

Discuss.

Discuss? Nothing more to talk about if you project your thoughts into other folks heads. You just know everybody is a "beliver" don't you? Are you Sye Ten's niece or something? So again, no discussing with crazy, delusional, and arrogant people that claim to know my thoughts (however nutty you make them out to be).

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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18-11-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:43 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

Discuss.

Discuss? Nothing more to talk about if you project your thoughts into other folks heads. You just know everybody is a "beliver" don't you? Are you Sye Ten's niece or something? So again, no discussing with crazy, delusional, and arrogant people that claim to know my thoughts (however nutty you make them out to be).


Find me a non-believer who believes we do have actual moral obligations, and i'll show you a closeted believer.
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18-11-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:43 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  [quote='Tomasia' pid='687629' dateline='1416342904']

Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

Discuss.

Find me a non-believer who believes we do have actual moral obligations, and i'll show you a closeted believer.

And why do the particular views of this entirely hypothetical person matter, again?

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18-11-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 11:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  "Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer." -Christopher Hitchens

Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

I have moral obligations to other people as a member of a society. I have moral obligations to other creatures with which I share this world. Those are the only moral obligations I recognize.

Behaving in any manner because you believe that you are required to is, at best, amoral.

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18-11-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:52 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Find me a non-believer who believes we do have actual moral obligations, and i'll show you a closeted believer.

And why do the particular views of this entirely hypothetical person matter, again?

Well, then we can test the validity of what I claimed.

An actual unbeliever who stated he believed in such a thing, at the end will either deny that such things exist, and perhaps he was wrong to think so, or will be shown to be a closeted believer.

If we don't have any here, then i rest my case.
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18-11-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:55 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:52 PM)cjlr Wrote:  And why do the particular views of this entirely hypothetical person matter, again?

Well, then we can test the validity of what I claimed.

An actual unbeliever who stated he believed in such a thing, at the end will either deny that such things exist, and perhaps he was wrong to think so, or will be shown to be a closeted believer.

Why?

In any case, it would be better if you defined your terms. What do you mean by "obligation"?

(18-11-2014 02:55 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If we don't have any here, then i rest my case.

So if there's nobody here who fits the parameters of your hypothetical, that's supposed to show... what, precisely?

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18-11-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:43 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Discuss? Nothing more to talk about if you project your thoughts into other folks heads. You just know everybody is a "beliver" don't you? Are you Sye Ten's niece or something? So again, no discussing with crazy, delusional, and arrogant people that claim to know my thoughts (however nutty you make them out to be).


Find me a non-believer who believes we do have actual moral obligations, and i'll show you a closeted believer.

Find me a believer who believes thay can speak for other minds in this manner, and I'll show you a closeted insecure and lost individual, with no self-worth and is incapable of thinking for themselves.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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