Morals, Christianity, Atheism
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18-11-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would debate that proposition but would mention that the Bible nowhere commands any person to be moral or ethical, but rather, to be holy or righteous, which is different.

Your comments?

Except of course where it says to love you neighbor as yourself, and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Which is not unique to Christianity.

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18-11-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Except of course where it says to love you neighbor as yourself, and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Which is not unique to Christianity.

True.

But to be fair, the ol' Bible offers plenty of exceptions to that purported "rule" as well.

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18-11-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:01 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Find me a non-believer who believes we do have actual moral obligations, and i'll show you a closeted believer.

Find me a believer who believes thay can speak for other minds in this manner, and I'll show you a closeted insecure and lost individual, with no self-worth and is incapable of thinking for themselves.

Whose mind am I speak for?

Are you an atheists who believes in moral obligations?

If not, than clearly i'm not speaking of your mind.
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18-11-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Except of course where it says to love you neighbor as yourself, and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Which is not unique to Christianity.

I never said it was. In fact if it were unique to Christianity, that would be a problem in and of itself. But that's an entirely different point all together.
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18-11-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:04 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 03:01 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Find me a believer who believes thay can speak for other minds in this manner, and I'll show you a closeted insecure and lost individual, with no self-worth and is incapable of thinking for themselves.

Whose mind am I speak for?

Are you an atheists who believes in moral obligations?

If not, than clearly i'm not speaking of your mind.

Try this guy, he seems to be willing to play along.

(18-11-2014 02:54 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

I have moral obligations to other people as a member of a society. I have moral obligations to other creatures with which I share this world. Those are the only moral obligations I recognize.

I look forward to seeing how he's apparently a closet theist.
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18-11-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  To answer (some of) your questions:

To be holy and righteous in the biblical sense/definition includes:

*A separation from some worldly things to cleave unto Jesus Christ

*Worshipping Jesus Christ

*Being cleansed by the Holy Spirit and forgiven of sin

*Etc.

Some atheists can be as ethical or moral as some Christians. I would debate that as a class, atheists are more moral than Bible-believing Christians but per the Bible, atheists, secularists and adherents of other religions are not as holy as Christians.

Define ''sin.'' Define morality.

You might be interested to know, that the group most responsible for the high divorce rate in the U.S. comes from ''conservative Christians.''

I don't believe in marriage, but since Christians hold marriage in such high regard, thought that was an inconvenient truth. I'm sure that's not the only inconvenient truth that they wish would go away.

But there they are, standing in the public square, waving their bibles, and ranting about how homosexuals shouldn't be permitted to legally marry.

If it weren't so sad, it might be funny. If this is your idea of morality, keep it.

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18-11-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:54 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I have moral obligations to other people as a member of a society. I have moral obligations to other creatures with which I share this world. Those are the only moral obligations I recognize.

You do? or we all do? Do I have an obligation to other people as a member of a society? Do i have an obligation to other creatures with which I share this world with?

If not, than why do these obligations exist for you, and not me?
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18-11-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:04 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 03:01 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Find me a believer who believes thay can speak for other minds in this manner, and I'll show you a closeted insecure and lost individual, with no self-worth and is incapable of thinking for themselves.

Whose mind am I speak for?

Are you an atheists who believes in moral obligations?

If not, than clearly i'm not speaking of your mind.

I am an athiest who has plenty of moral obligations (as all human beings do share). So - yes you are trying to speak for me and label myself as a closted believer. Your belief perseverence is not contagous around here so don't try and spread that virus here and give it to me. I have a long and healthy life still to live without that mental condition called "faith".

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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18-11-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:11 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I am an athiest who has plenty of moral obligations (as all human beings do share).

I'll bite. What obligates you?
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18-11-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 03:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 02:54 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I have moral obligations to other people as a member of a society. I have moral obligations to other creatures with which I share this world. Those are the only moral obligations I recognize.

You do? or we all do? Do I have an obligation to other people as a member of a society? Do i have an obligation to other creatures with which I share this world with?

If not, than why do these obligations exist for you, and not me?

I have assumed those obligations for myself because I wish to participate in society. I don't pretend to speak for you.

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