Morals, Christianity, Atheism
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18-11-2014, 05:05 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 05:03 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  [quote='Bucky Ball' pid='687756' dateline='1416350918']


First of all, genius, you're off by a factor of 100.
0.02 % is two hundredths of *one percent*. 2.00 % is "two percent".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism [.quote]

Opps, one too many zeros, it should be .2%.

And where did you get THAT figure ? You're still off, now by a factor of 10.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-11-2014, 05:06 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 05:03 PM)unfogged Wrote:  That chart is the "known" or declared religious affiliations. The next line on the page shows the unknown count. How many of the unknowns are religious or not is impossible to say.

Either way, the .2% is self-identified atheists in prison, which can only be compared to self-identified atheists in the general population. To include the unaffiliated in one number, and not the other is dishonest.
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18-11-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 05:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And where did you get THAT figure ? You're still off, now by a factor of 10.

The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, put self-identified atheist at (0.7%) , in 2000 that number was at (0.4 %)

http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/Ameri...t_2008.pdf

The prison survey is from 1997, and self-identified atheist represented (.209%)

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
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18-11-2014, 05:18 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
I should probably stop believing people right out.

I'd just like to say that the specific number doesn't devalue my point.
(18-11-2014 04:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: rNyTbDJ.png]
Is "Nation" just people referring to themselves as being part of the most common religion in the country?

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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18-11-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 04:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Then I do not understand your use of obligation, particularly in the context of a moral obligation. Please define your terms.

I stand by the claim that I recognize moral obligations but do not believe in any deity.

Definition: A sense of duty, or course of action in which someone is bound or restricted to.

Your obligation is not binding, since it's to yourself, and you can just choose to not be bound by it, or in other words you were not bound to begin with.

You're merely choosing not to eat the pie, because you don't care for it, not because you have an obligation to not eat it.

Your not actually speaking of obligations, but rather using the term obligation as a decorative frill.
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18-11-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 05:28 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-11-2014 04:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Then I do not understand your use of obligation, particularly in the context of a moral obligation. Please define your terms.

I stand by the claim that I recognize moral obligations but do not believe in any deity.

Your obligation is not binding, since it's to yourself, and you can just choose to not be bound by it, or in other words you were not bound to begin with.

Breaking obligation does not mean that you were never bound by it in the first place.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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18-11-2014, 05:47 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 04:57 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I am obligated to keep the brakes on my vehicle in working condition. My neighbor has no vehicle and does not drive.

But if he did own a vehicle and does drive it, does he then have an obligation to keep the brakes on? If so to whom does he have this obligation too?

You can say he does have an obligation to the state in such an example. Since he has a legal obligation to the state as a vehicle operator to insure the brakes are in working order. But outside of these legal obligations he has none.
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18-11-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  To answer (some of) your questions:

To be holy and righteous in the biblical sense/definition includes:

*A separation from some worldly things to cleave unto Jesus Christ

*Worshipping Jesus Christ

*Being cleansed by the Holy Spirit and forgiven of sin

*Etc.

Some atheists can be as ethical or moral as some Christians. I would debate that as a class, atheists are more moral than Bible-believing Christians but per the Bible, atheists, secularists and adherents of other religions are not as holy as Christians.
I can live with that given every single example you listed is a bunch of made up bullshit.
Jesus Christ was at best a nut job awaiting the end of the world and more then likely didn't even exist.
Jesus as he is represented in the Bible is hardly worthy of worship by any kind of real life metric you can think of.
The Holy Spirit does not exist.
Sin is a human construct, not an actual thing.
There is no such thing as Holy as it is described in religious texts.

So you have conceded that Atheists are as a group more moral then Christians. So ...thread is over then?Drinking Beverage

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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18-11-2014, 05:52 PM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2014 06:02 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 02:35 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 11:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  "Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer." -Christopher Hitchens

Easy, "We have moral obligations".

A non-believer who claims to believe this would just be a closeted believer of some sort.

Discuss.

Sure, that's easy to discuss.

That's fucking stupid.

You are welcome.

The statement "We have moral obligations" does not require a religious belief to make or hold as true. To claim otherwise means YOU have to prove that it does.

Oh also DEMONSTRATE that the statement you made is in fact true in the real world. You can make unique statements till you are blue in the face, unless they have actual value in reality they are worthless.

" Bgthe'htyrx ghrtadyuin, hga ghejs gaha'jagasjk!"
Is a statement that theoretically a theist could make that a non-believer wouldn't. That does not mean it actually meets Hitchens criteria or has any actual worth. Statements don't have worth just because they are made.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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18-11-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(18-11-2014 05:46 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Breaking obligation does not mean that you were never bound by it in the first place.

Of course breaking an obligation doesn't mean you were never bound by it, but the fact that you were never bound by it means the obligation doesn't exist, or in other words it's not an obligation if you are not bound by it.

His binding to himself is merely a fiction, and all it takes for him to unbind himself, is a realization that he was never bound in the first place.
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