Morals and Ethics without the christian god
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01-08-2011, 11:16 AM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
(31-07-2011 07:10 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Given (sic.... Be it resolved?): All morality comes from God.
All morality came from God before anybody heard of God, before God talked to any prophets, before any holy guys wrote any holy books.

So...... Why bother with the holy books? The burning bush, the tablets, the whale, the parables, the destruction of cities, the whole nasty business of teaching some few people a lesson and another lesson and another lesson? (Not even to mention that lovely circular bit of stagecraft where "I'm so mad at you for being the way I made you that nothing you have is good enough to appease me, so I'll give you my son to snuff and that will keep me happy until the first crusade .... as long as you never forgive the people who do the actual snuffing on my command." )

Maybe we were better off without morality? Consider the birds of the air.
None of us have completely lived up to what we know of right and wrong. The Bible reveals how we can be forgiven for our failure.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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01-08-2011, 11:33 AM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
Morals in the bible are dumb, while you obey one you may at the same time break another.

Who was it who talked about "you should not lie" commandment. What would you have done during the 2nd WW in Germany if you were hiding a jewish family or anything else Hitler hated (cripples gays and whatnot).......to obey a commandment would you tell that they are hiding???? Have in your conscious that you helped to get these people assassinated?

Christians using computers, that are made from people that don't believe in ghosts!
Yes all you christians using modern technology, go back to the stone wheel, this technology is satan's tool!
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01-08-2011, 12:24 PM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
I think it says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness." I realize that's a bit of a quibble from not lying in general, but that book is full of loopholes, quibbles and technicalities, as well as massive overkill for minor infractions. Generally, a most unsatisfactory record of ethical behaviour.

Computers are made from.... people?? Exclamation

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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01-08-2011, 06:19 PM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
Zach--Do you think it is possible to think of god, not in terms of any religious doctrines and dogmas, but simply as the best stance we can hold in doing our best with life as we understand it.For example; the earthly or Universal good.
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01-08-2011, 07:02 PM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
(01-08-2011 12:24 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Computers are made from.... people?? Exclamation

Fixed.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-08-2011, 08:25 PM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
I don't understand how it is so incredibly hard to just go after "treat others how I want to be treated"..........WHY does anybody need to tell me not to do dumb stuff, it's pure logic! I only benefit from a society that works well so why do I want to destroy that? COMMON SENSE! Don't learn that from some stupid book, you see it anywhere in nature.
My mother worked to get me food and clothes and hugged me to make me stop crying and all that, NATURALLY I wouldn't want to treat her bad!
But I guess for people who just can't think for themselves NEED someone to point the finger and say "no no bad dog"......
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01-08-2011, 09:16 PM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
(01-08-2011 08:25 PM)Cusquenita Wrote:  I don't understand how it is so incredibly hard to just go after "treat others how I want to be treated"..........

I got 3 Commandments I live by:

Commandment #1: Don't be an asshole.
Commandment #2: Unless you have to.
Commandment #3: See Commandment #1.

They have proven sufficient thus far.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-08-2011, 10:44 PM
 
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
(01-08-2011 06:19 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Zach--Do you think it is possible to think of god, not in terms of any religious doctrines and dogmas, but simply as the best stance we can hold in doing our best with life as we understand it.For example; the earthly or Universal good.

As some sort of ideal or standard to try to live up to? I'm not sure I understand your question, but I can be very thick(especially when I'm tired) so just tell me if I'm not answering the actual question and I'll try again Tongue

I think any ideal that embodies a moral code is good to have. Something to strive for, even if it's not possible to reach, is a good reminder of what you consider important. It's a benefit of religious belief, although it's not so helpful when the ideal is tainted with bigotry or used as a reminder of one's failings instead of an inspiration to improve. And while it's built into religion, it's obviously not confined to religion.

Thinking of God as a concept, something that embodies "absolute" good (as in what benefits everyone, what makes humanity stronger or happier as a whole, doesn't harm others, etc.) makes sense to me. Or at least no objections, problems, issues, etc. spring to mind at the moment. I find more abstract God-concepts interesting, particularly because they lack the baggage that religions stick them with. They can be very positive.

So, to directly and concisely answer your question: yes. I'm not clear on whether this God is meant to be symbolic, real, etc. and what purpose it's meant to serve, but I certainly think that line of thought can be reasonable and intriguing.
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02-08-2011, 11:55 AM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
(01-08-2011 11:33 AM)Cusquenita Wrote:  Who was it who talked about "you should not lie" commandment. What would you have done during the 2nd WW in Germany if you were hiding a jewish family or anything else Hitler hated (cripples gays and whatnot).......to obey a commandment would you tell that they are hiding???? Have in your conscious that you helped to get these people assassinated?
If you read The Hiding Place, by Corrie ten Boom, you will learn what happened to people who were faced with this situation. The book is about a Christian family that lived in Holland during the Nazi occupation and was involved in helping to smuggle Jews out of the country.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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02-08-2011, 01:48 PM
RE: Morals and Ethics without the christian god
(02-08-2011 11:55 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(01-08-2011 11:33 AM)Cusquenita Wrote:  Who was it who talked about "you should not lie" commandment. What would you have done during the 2nd WW in Germany if you were hiding a jewish family or anything else Hitler hated (cripples gays and whatnot).......to obey a commandment would you tell that they are hiding???? Have in your conscious that you helped to get these people assassinated?
If you read The Hiding Place, by Corrie ten Boom, you will learn what happened to people who were faced with this situation. The book is about a Christian family that lived in Holland during the Nazi occupation and was involved in helping to smuggle Jews out of the country.

That won't actually answer the point that I'm trying to bring up, that the ten commandments are in black and white and nothing in between.
I did study many years in Sweden where education is very good and I do indeed know what happened to people hiding jews etc. I just think you missed the point of the whole question asked. There are better examples explaining this.
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