Poll: Do you think more guns means less crime?
Yes
No
I did until I saw these data
[Show Results]
Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-04-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Surely that would be implicitly accounted for by the existing restrictions on licenses? I would have to imagine sales to unlicensed individuals would be illegal.

Exactly.

Yeabut...in most states it is not illegal to sell a gun to an unlicensed individual if you are a private party.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Losty's post
14-04-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:38 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, but that is not unique to gun shows.
In Massachusetts, the seller is required to see the purchaser's license and file a Form FA-10 with the state within 7 days of the transfer.
A private citizen may sell no more than 4 firearms per year.

A federally-licensed firearms dealer has to do a NIC check, gun show or not.

Then the "gun show loophole" exists, but that is a more narrow term than you'd like to call it. It is the "private sales loophole" where the "gun show loophole" is a special case.

The words are important. Mischaracterizing an issue leads to misunderstanding.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  Exactly.

Licenses as in drivers license or official identification?

Uh, a gun license. Because they're buying a gun.

(14-04-2015 12:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Who is checking to see if a private citizen selling another private citizen a firearm is doing any of this?

Indeed. Who is checking to see that any law is followed?

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:38 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Then the "gun show loophole" exists, but that is a more narrow term than you'd like to call it. It is the "private sales loophole" where the "gun show loophole" is a special case.

The words are important. Mischaracterizing an issue leads to misunderstanding.

Indeed, so it is important to note that it does exist and that it is a part of a larger loophole.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
A gun kept this guy "safe."

http://www.ktre.com/story/28788964/lufki...ning-death

Quote:Lufkin PD investigating possible gun cleaning death

Oh wait...no it didn't.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:44 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:43 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Licenses as in drivers license or official identification?

Uh, a gun license. Because they're buying a gun.

(14-04-2015 12:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Who is checking to see if a private citizen selling another private citizen a firearm is doing any of this?

Indeed. Who is checking to see that any law is followed?

So, in order to buy a shotgun or use a shotgun, I have to have a gun license?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:42 PM)Losty Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  Exactly.

Yeabut...in most states it is not illegal to sell a gun to an unlicensed individual if you are a private party.

Yes, it is. It is unlawful to sell a firearm to anyone not legally able to possess it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:44 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:43 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Uh, a gun license. Because they're buying a gun.


Indeed. Who is checking to see that any law is followed?

So, in order to buy a shotgun or use a shotgun, I have to have a gun license?

In Massachusetts, according to the laws Chas has cited? Yes to buy, not necessarily to use.

Are laws magical? No; sometimes they're broken.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:43 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  The words are important. Mischaracterizing an issue leads to misunderstanding.

Indeed, so it is important to note that it does exist and that it is a part of a larger loophole.

It's not a loophole. That is also a mischaracterization.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 12:46 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:44 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So, in order to buy a shotgun or use a shotgun, I have to have a gun license?

In Massachusetts, according to the laws Chas has cited? Yes to buy, not necessarily to use.

Are laws magical? No; sometimes they're broken.

I only see 14 states that require some sort of licensure, and MA is one of them. But this isn't a federal law. The vast majority of states do not criminalize the sale of guns to individual without a gun license. Or even require a gun license.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: