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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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14-04-2015, 01:12 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:56 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So, if someone intentionally takes advantage of a workaround, you disqualify it as a loophole?

In your mind, it is only a loophole if it is accidentally used?

A loophole is an unintended consequence of the law or rule.
Private sales were intentionally not subjected to a NICS check.

So, you consider it not a loophole if it is intentionally inserted into the law? Because I can't imagine anyone would ever write legislation with loopholes in mind. (intense sarcasm, cough, cough)

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14-04-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not really. Shipping firearms across state lines is federally regulated. It must go to a licensed dealer in the buyer's state.

Because if I buy in a state where the private seller doesn't have to check my licensure, this is feasible to track and convict with?

You are both risking federal prosecution.

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14-04-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  A loophole is an unintended consequence of the law or rule.
Private sales were intentionally not subjected to a NICS check.

So, you consider it not a loophole if it is intentionally inserted into the law? Because I can't imagine anyone would ever write legislation with loopholes in mind. (intense sarcasm, cough, cough)

Usually we call them exceptions. It's not exactly an unknown concept.

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14-04-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:05 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because if I buy in a state where the private seller doesn't have to check my licensure, this is feasible to track and convict with?

You are both risking federal prosecution.

How does anyone prove I did anything wrong during a private sale in a state that doesn't require any background check or license check?

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14-04-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  The scenarios you have presented are all illegal purchases.

Illegal purchases that can't be tracked because they were legally sold.

No, the sale was illegal.

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14-04-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So, you consider it not a loophole if it is intentionally inserted into the law? Because I can't imagine anyone would ever write legislation with loopholes in mind. (intense sarcasm, cough, cough)

Usually we call them exceptions. It's not exactly an unknown concept.

Fine, the private sales exception that leads to illegal purchasing of firearms, including at gun shows.

That is much more specific.

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14-04-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are both risking federal prosecution.

How does anyone prove I did anything wrong during a private sale in a state that doesn't require any background check or license check?

How does anyone ever prove anyone ever did anything wrong absent immediate eyewitness or documentary evidence?

You'd think no one was ever accused of anything, listening to you...

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14-04-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
The problems are pretty obvious.

1. No cohesive and comprehensive gun laws for the 50 States. But even if all States followed Massachusetts...
2. Once a gun is sold, even by licensed firearms dealers, it isn't possible to track it or keep it out of the hands of the next generation owner.
Private sales simply make it impossible for law agencies to track a weapon and private individuals, even if motivated, do not have the resources to do background checks on other private individuals. And let's face reality, many private sales are intentionally not reported or registered.

This leaves us in the situation the US is now in, a glut of firearms in the hands of unqualified, untrained and criminal elements of society.

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14-04-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Illegal purchases that can't be tracked because they were legally sold.

No, the sale was illegal.

The sale or the purchase? Because if I (as the seller) am not legally obligated to do a background or license check, how have I violated any law by selling to whom I so choose?

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14-04-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Usually we call them exceptions. It's not exactly an unknown concept.

Fine, the private sales exception that leads to illegal purchasing of firearms, including at gun shows.

That is much more specific.

Um, if it's illegal, it's not arising from a deliberate legal exception. And vice versa.

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