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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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14-04-2015, 01:18 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:16 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How does anyone prove I did anything wrong during a private sale in a state that doesn't require any background check or license check?

How does anyone ever prove anyone ever did anything wrong absent immediate eyewitness or documentary evidence?

You'd think no one was ever accused of anything, listening to you...

With no tracking of the sales or who is being sold to or who is selling anything, it makes it impossible to demonstrate if it was legally or illegally purchased or sold.

You can attempt to play semantics, but if you truly don't get what I am saying, you need to reread my posts and reconsider the implications.

When buying and selling weapons designed to kill, we should make sure that those selling them are doing so ethically and legally, as well as those purchasing them.

And most states don't regulate that or enforce that.

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14-04-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Fine, the private sales exception that leads to illegal purchasing of firearms, including at gun shows.

That is much more specific.

Um, if it's illegal, it's not arising from a deliberate legal exception. And vice versa.

So, if I can't legally own a gun, but I purchase one from a private seller who sells it to me legally because they don't have to check my license or do a background check, that was all legal?

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14-04-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:16 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The problems are pretty obvious.

1. No cohesive and comprehensive gun laws for the 50 States. But even if all States followed Massachusetts...
2. Once a gun is sold, even by licensed firearms dealers, it isn't possible to track it or keep it out of the hands of the next generation owner.
Private sales simply make it impossible for law agencies to track a weapon and private individuals, even if motivated, do not have the resources to do background checks on other private individuals. And let's face reality, many private sales are intentionally not reported or registered.

This leaves us in the situation the US is now in, a glut of firearms in the hands of unqualified, untrained and criminal elements of society.

Exactly.

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14-04-2015, 01:20 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are both risking federal prosecution.

How does anyone prove I did anything wrong during a private sale in a state that doesn't require any background check or license check?

Because you possess a firearm that can be tracked back to the FFL and the original purchaser by serial number.
If the FFL is not in your state and you can't show a legal sale, you're in deep yoghurt.

The penalties for this kind of crime are pretty damn severe.

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14-04-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How does anyone prove I did anything wrong during a private sale in a state that doesn't require any background check or license check?

Because you possess a firearm that can be tracked back to the FFL and the original purchaser by serial number.
If the FFL is not in your state and you can't show a legal sale, you're in deep yoghurt.

The penalties for this kind of crime are pretty damn severe.

Because no one could possibly remove the serial number....

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14-04-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Um, if it's illegal, it's not arising from a deliberate legal exception. And vice versa.

So, if I can't legally own a gun, but I purchase one from a private seller who sells it to me legally because they don't have to check my license or do a background check, that was all legal?

If you can't legally own a gun, then selling you one is illegal.

That's what those words mean, friend.

I do not think that is a very complicated idea.

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14-04-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Um, if it's illegal, it's not arising from a deliberate legal exception. And vice versa.

So, if I can't legally own a gun, but I purchase one from a private seller who sells it to me legally because they don't have to check my license or do a background check, that was all legal?

The sale was illegal. Why do you keep ignoring that?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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14-04-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:22 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because you possess a firearm that can be tracked back to the FFL and the original purchaser by serial number.
If the FFL is not in your state and you can't show a legal sale, you're in deep yoghurt.

The penalties for this kind of crime are pretty damn severe.

Because no one could possibly remove the serial number....

Which is also illegal and carries stiff penalties.

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14-04-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 01:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So, if I can't legally own a gun, but I purchase one from a private seller who sells it to me legally because they don't have to check my license or do a background check, that was all legal?

The sale was illegal. Why do you keep ignoring that?

In all 50 states, that sale is made by the seller knowing it was illegal?

You keep ignoring that these are easy laws to bypass when they are so heterogenous. Either you don't get what is being presented to you, or you are intentionally ignoring the points raised in these scenarios.

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14-04-2015, 01:26 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
I am glad to see that no one seems to agree that more guns means less crime though. 14 for 'no' and no yeses. Thumbsup

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