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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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15-04-2015, 09:01 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 08:43 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 06:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you live in a state that has handgun registration - then your state maintains that record.

If you live in a state that does not have handgun registration - the ATF form 4473 that you filled out when buying the handgun was kept at the FFL dealer who sold you the gun. It was NOT transmitted or sent to the federal government. The ATF has NO record of your handgun - and ONLY a search of the gunshop it was purchased from can give them that information.

Same goes for a NICS check -- NO information except "long gun or hand gun" goes to NICS. The make, model and serial numbers are NOT used in a NICS check..

You can take that info to the bank. I've worked in an gun shop and have sold thousands of handguns and rifles.

That shop has long since closed down. What happened to that info?
This was in Florida. If Florida has a handgun registration then you are saying that info resides in State records somewhere correct?

If Florida (or any State without handgun registration) does not have state registration is that information gone?

Gun shops are required to keep the form 4473 and sales receipts for a 10 year period. In some shops that don't do a huge amount of business - they may be kept a bit longer than that. As a rule, they do get destroyed after 10 years due to the amount of space they take up in the store.

If registered in Florida - the state should have a record of the handgun...

.......................................

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15-04-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
The NRA is not the safety organization it started out as. It is nothing more than a corporate lobby group out to protect the profits of the industry.

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15-04-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 10:45 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  The NRA is not the safety organization it started out as. It is nothing more than a corporate lobby group out to protect the profits of the industry.

That becomes obvious when you look at who they side with on lawsuits against the Gun Industry by their own members. If a gun malfunctions the NRA stands with the manufacturer against the owner.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-04-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 07:29 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, because actual reasons - like the definition of 'loophole'.

loop·hole
ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/Submit
noun
1.
an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.


It. Is. A. Loophole. Because it is an inadequacy in the law to have that many state level laws that can be easily bypassed.

Only illegally. There is no ambiguity and the fact that personal sales not requiring a NICS check is considered by you to be an inadequacy doesn't change the fact that is was intentional.

NICS is set up for federally licensed gun dealers.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-04-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 03:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And Mexico isn't comparable to the U.S. either.

Of course not. They have a murder rate five times our own, despite their stricter laws and enforcement. There's no way we could keep up with that.
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15-04-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 11:16 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 10:45 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  The NRA is not the safety organization it started out as. It is nothing more than a corporate lobby group out to protect the profits of the industry.

That becomes obvious when you look at who they side with on lawsuits against the Gun Industry by their own members. If a gun malfunctions the NRA stands with the manufacturer against the owner.

Citation required. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-04-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 07:29 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  loop·hole
ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/Submit
noun
1.
an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.


It. Is. A. Loophole. Because it is an inadequacy in the law to have that many state level laws that can be easily bypassed.

Only illegally. There is no ambiguity and the fact that personal sales not requiring a NICS check is considered by you to be an inadequacy doesn't change the fact that is was intentional.

NICS is set up for federally licensed gun dealers.

It is inadequate. It creates a loophole because of its inadequacy. Loophole does not mean it is something that must still be technically legal. That is NOT in the definition of a loophole.

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15-04-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 12:51 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 03:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And Mexico isn't comparable to the U.S. either.

Of course not. They have a murder rate five times our own, despite their stricter laws and enforcement. There's no way we could keep up with that.

Clearly there is no way they can keep with their enforcement either. Because they are not a comparable nation to the US with our budget and resources.

It isn't simply about having strict gun laws, it is about having useful gun laws, responsible gun owners, and better regulation of the guns and gun owners.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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15-04-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 09:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 08:43 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  That shop has long since closed down. What happened to that info?
This was in Florida. If Florida has a handgun registration then you are saying that info resides in State records somewhere correct?

If Florida (or any State without handgun registration) does not have state registration is that information gone?

Gun shops are required to keep the form 4473 and sales receipts for a 10 year period. In some shops that don't do a huge amount of business - they may be kept a bit longer than that. As a rule, they do get destroyed after 10 years due to the amount of space they take up in the store.

If registered in Florida - the state should have a record of the handgun...

OK. The State of Florida has thirty year old records that I purchased this particular handgun. Now to my other points, how do they know I still have it in my possession? That I didn't lose it or have it stolen? Do they cross reference death certificates with gun owners to track what happens to a hand gun when the legal owner dies?

You would think that the State at the minimum would send out a form once a year like the property appraisers office does to confirm that you are still alive, that the property hasn't transferred hands and that it is still in your possession. Short of this authorities don't have any updated info, what good is thirty year old info? And what motivation is there for me or my family or my executor to report any of the above? Even if you tell me it's required by law it is nearly impossible to enforce.

Having unenforceable laws regarding firearms is a farce.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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15-04-2015, 01:03 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(14-04-2015 05:34 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 04:58 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Hey look, another pro-NRA troll

The truth hurts. Drinking Beverage

Those poor criminals. http://www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/...ome_i.html

No. Gun shots hurt.

The poor children of idiot parents with guns.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/12/us/ohio-baby-dead/

Quote:A 1-year-old child was shot and killed Sunday, possibly by a toddler, after a firearm was left unattended, authorities in Cleveland said.

Small price to pay for you gun nuts, eh?

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