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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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15-04-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 12:53 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only illegally. There is no ambiguity and the fact that personal sales not requiring a NICS check is considered by you to be an inadequacy doesn't change the fact that is was intentional.

NICS is set up for federally licensed gun dealers.

It is inadequate. It creates a loophole because of its inadequacy. Loophole does not mean it is something that must still be technically legal. That is NOT in the definition of a loophole.

Before 1998 NICS didn't even exist. Was that a loophole? Consider

Wikipedia disagrees with you.

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15-04-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 12:53 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is inadequate. It creates a loophole because of its inadequacy. Loophole does not mean it is something that must still be technically legal. That is NOT in the definition of a loophole.

Before 1998 NICS didn't even exist. Was that a loophole? Consider

Wikipedia disagrees with you.

I don't give a shit if wikipedia disagrees with me. You want to have a semantics argument over whether or not loophole is an appropriate term, and it is. The law is inadequate, making it a loophole. That does not necessarily mean that the loophole be something that is technically still illegal.

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15-04-2015, 01:08 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 12:53 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is inadequate. It creates a loophole because of its inadequacy. Loophole does not mean it is something that must still be technically legal. That is NOT in the definition of a loophole.

Before 1998 NICS didn't even exist. Was that a loophole? Consider

Wikipedia disagrees with you.

But where does it say that the loophole must also be something that is explicitly legal?

"A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or explicitly stated, of the system. Loopholes are searched for and used strategically in a variety of circumstances, including taxes, elections, politics, the criminal justice system, or in breaches of security, or a response to one's civil liberties."

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15-04-2015, 01:13 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Here, I'll put it this way. The laws and regulations governing the sale of guns (private or as a part of a business) is intended to prevent the sell of guns to those who cannot legally posses them, no?

If so, these laws are inadequate in doing so, because with 50 different sets of laws and regulations with some states not requiring licensure or the checking of a license before a private sale, these illegal purchases and sales happen.

Loop meet hole.

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15-04-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
And this is part of the way that legal guns, become illegal guns.

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15-04-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
And this still ignores the selling of guns to those not qualified to own or use them for mental health reasons or for lack of proper training. Those laws seem largely nonexistent for most of the US. Including more deregulation in places like Kansas.

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15-04-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  Before 1998 NICS didn't even exist. Was that a loophole? Consider

Wikipedia disagrees with you.

But where does it say that the loophole must also be something that is explicitly legal?

"A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or explicitly stated, of the system. Loopholes are searched for and used strategically in a variety of circumstances, including taxes, elections, politics, the criminal justice system, or in breaches of security, or a response to one's civil liberties."

A loophole is an inadequacy that allows avoiding the intent by legal circumvention. That is the usage.
If you are breaking the law, you are not taking advantage of a loophole.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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15-04-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But where does it say that the loophole must also be something that is explicitly legal?

"A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or explicitly stated, of the system. Loopholes are searched for and used strategically in a variety of circumstances, including taxes, elections, politics, the criminal justice system, or in breaches of security, or a response to one's civil liberties."

A loophole is an inadequacy that allows avoiding the intent by legal circumvention. That is the usage.
If you are breaking the law, you are not taking advantage of a loophole.

Nope, we are playing the semantics game and nowhere does it indicate that a loophole must constitute an activity that is technically illegal.

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15-04-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  A loophole is an inadequacy that allows avoiding the intent by legal circumvention. That is the usage.
If you are breaking the law, you are not taking advantage of a loophole.

Nope, we are playing the semantics game and nowhere does it indicate that a loophole must constitute an activity that is technically illegal.

Look at all the examples in the Wikipedia article. You are misusing the term.

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15-04-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
For instance (again), tax inversion. Avoiding paying taxes is illegal, but a loophole (an inadequate tax system that allows companies to circumvent the intent of the US tax code) allows companies to use inversion to avoid paying taxes in the US. Avoiding paying taxes is technically illegal, but the loophole of tax inversion provides a way to circumvent the inadequate laws.

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