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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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15-04-2015, 01:33 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Not that it matters, as this is a pointless argument, but I agree with Chas on the loophole def. That is, a method of doing/getting something that wasn't originally intended, while not technically breaking any established rules.

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15-04-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Nope, we are playing the semantics game and nowhere does it indicate that a loophole must constitute an activity that is technically illegal.

Look at all the examples in the Wikipedia article. You are misusing the term.

Yeah, I see the examples. And the gun laws surrounding the sale of guns (particularly the private sale, including at gun shows) is inadequate, creating a loophole.

You wanted to play the semantics game with the definition of a loophole, and you are incorrect. Hell, you even provided a definition and examples that don't indicate that the loophole must technically constitute a legal action

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15-04-2015, 01:36 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Not that it matters, as this is a pointless argument, but I agree with Chas on the loophole def. That is, a method of doing/getting something that wasn't originally intended, while not technically breaking any established rules.

If the gun laws are designed to prevent the sale and purchase of weapons to those who cannot legally own them, but private sales laws do not have a way of actually preventing these illegal purchases, then the law is inadequate. And thus, it is a loophole.

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15-04-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:32 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  For instance (again), tax inversion. Avoiding paying taxes is illegal, but a loophole (an inadequate tax system that allows companies to circumvent the intent of the US tax code) allows companies to use inversion to avoid paying taxes in the US. Avoiding paying taxes is technically illegal, but the loophole of tax inversion provides a way to circumvent the inadequate laws.

Legally. If it weren't, they'd be prosecuted.

"Tax inversions are a form of tax avoidance, whereby corporations and individuals arrange their affairs to legally reduce their tax obligations."

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15-04-2015, 01:39 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Not that it matters, as this is a pointless argument, but I agree with Chas on the loophole def. That is, a method of doing/getting something that wasn't originally intended, while not technically breaking any established rules.

If the gun laws are designed to prevent the sale and purchase of weapons to those who cannot legally own them, but private sales laws do not have a way of actually preventing these illegal purchases, then the law is inadequate. And thus, it is a loophole.

Wrong. Breaking the law is not using a loophole. It is just breaking the law.

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15-04-2015, 01:40 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  Look at all the examples in the Wikipedia article. You are misusing the term.

Yeah, I see the examples. And the gun laws surrounding the sale of guns (particularly the private sale, including at gun shows) is inadequate, creating a loophole.

You wanted to play the semantics game with the definition of a loophole, and you are incorrect. Hell, you even provided a definition and examples that don't indicate that the loophole must technically constitute a legal action

O rly?

What example did I give?

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15-04-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Here, I'll use this example from the wikipedia page (which seems super credible since even this example still says "citation needed")

"Although the sale of untested drugs is illegal in the US and UK, manufacturers have circumvented legislation by labelling products "not for human consumption".[citation needed] Consumers still buy and use the products as drugs but vendors cannot be prosecuted as they have no control over the consumer after the point of sale."

The sale of untested drugs is still illegal, so these drugs being sold is still technically illegal, but the loophole sells them as something else. So while the sale of the drugs is illegal, the sell of the product in general is allowed under a different purpose.

The sale of guns to those not legally allowed to possess them is still technically illegal, but the loophole is that in most states, the seller is under no obligation in any way to ensure or check that the person buying the gun is legally allowed to do so. Making the purchase and sale still technically illegal while the law is (as written) unable to actually prevent this sale, as is its purpose.

Loop, meet hole.

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15-04-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Not that it matters, as this is a pointless argument, but I agree with Chas on the loophole def. That is, a method of doing/getting something that wasn't originally intended, while not technically breaking any established rules.

If the gun laws are designed to prevent the sale and purchase of weapons to those who cannot legally own them, but private sales laws do not have a way of actually preventing these illegal purchases, then the law is inadequate. And thus, it is a loophole.
I'd agree that the law is inadequate and/or inadequately enforced, I just wouldn't call it a loophole. Based on the usage of loophole I've experienced in my life.

I see the definition, but I think (interestingly enough) that it is inadequate and ambiguous.

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15-04-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Yeah, I see the examples. And the gun laws surrounding the sale of guns (particularly the private sale, including at gun shows) is inadequate, creating a loophole.

You wanted to play the semantics game with the definition of a loophole, and you are incorrect. Hell, you even provided a definition and examples that don't indicate that the loophole must technically constitute a legal action

O rly?

What example did I give?

The wikipedia page. You forgot you linked that?

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15-04-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:41 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If the gun laws are designed to prevent the sale and purchase of weapons to those who cannot legally own them, but private sales laws do not have a way of actually preventing these illegal purchases, then the law is inadequate. And thus, it is a loophole.
I'd agree that the law is inadequate and/or inadequately enforced, I just wouldn't call it a loophole. Based on the usage of loophole I've experienced in my life.

I see the definition, but I think (interestingly enough) that it is inadequate and ambiguous.

As those are synonyms of a loophole, I am not surprised. Thumbsup

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