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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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15-04-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If the gun laws are designed to prevent the sale and purchase of weapons to those who cannot legally own them, but private sales laws do not have a way of actually preventing these illegal purchases, then the law is inadequate. And thus, it is a loophole.

Wrong. Breaking the law is not using a loophole. It is just breaking the law.

Circumventing a law that is intended to be preventive, is still a loophole.

In the end, what do you think you are proving by removing this one word (which is a synonym of inadequate and ambiguous, so if those terms apply then loophole should too) from the "gunshow loophole" argument? Does this justify the inadequate laws governing the sale of private guns?

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15-04-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Haha, I decided to lookup "loophole" on Urban dictionary, not because it's credible, just to see.

Here are a few (less common) definitions:
Quote:slang for "anus" commonly used by Utah residents

"I'm a Mormon and need to maintain my purity until marriage, but you can stick it in my loophole if you want."

Quote:When a woman "saves herself" for marriage, but will let jo schmo have anal sex with her. "But, I am still a virgin!"

"She totally lets him hit that loop hole, what a sweet, virgin girl she is."

Oh man, the things you learn... Laugh out load

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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15-04-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:55 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Haha, I decided to lookup "loophole" on Urban dictionary, not because it's credible, just to see.

Here are a few definitions:
Quote:slang for "anus" commonly used by Utah residents

"I'm a Mormon and need to maintain my purity until marriage, but you can stick it in my loophole if you want."

Quote:When a woman "saves herself" for marriage, but will let jo schmo have anal sex with her. "But, I am still a virgin!"

"She totally lets him hit that loop hole, what a sweet, virgin girl she is."

Oh man, the things you learn... Laugh out load

I wish I could access a loophole...

Wait...

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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15-04-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
I think that it is obvious that gun laws are inadequate in their aims and enforcement of these laws questionable at best. Even if existing gun laws were followed to a T they are easily circumvented or ignored.

Where does that leave us?

Last year I read the following with great interest...biometric gun locks
http://news.discovery.com/tech/biotechno...140505.htm
http://www.wired.com/2014/05/sentinl-gun-lock/

Seems to me a very workable solution to a myriad of problems but I would take it even further. What if this or a similar device was required when a handgun was purchased and only the licensed gun dealer could set the fingerprint ID?

Whatever inconveniences this might cause are minor compared to all the problems it solves:
1) Only the purchaser (and spouse or adult children) who’s background is checked can operate and remove the locking mechanism.
2) If the weapon is subsequently sold both the legal owner and the new buyer must go to a licensed gun dealer to have the prints changed on the locking mechanism. The transaction would have to be documented and reported thus ensuring the tracking of any individual hand gun.
3) A lost or stolen hand gun is useless to the finder or thief.
4) As Girly pointed out regarding the tragic deaths by children finding the guns, this solves that problem.
5) When an owner dies a death certificate must me presented to the gun dealer by a relative/executor before the ID can be changed (and reported).
6) I would also add a requirement where periodically, once a year or three years (a reasonable time period), the gun owner must present the hand gun along with the attached gun lock to law enforcement. Failure to do so would be a crime and would carry a penalty (what that penalty is I don’t know, monetary, confiscation of said hand gun). This would deter a private individual from removing the mechanism and selling it without it.

For this to work all 50 states must enact the same laws and implement them.





Drawbacks:
1) Once the gun lock is off the gun all bets are off. I would prefer to see the biometric device integrated into the weapon itself.
2) No doubt there will be unscrupulous dealers who for the right price will change the fingerprints but I’m certain the system for setting the IDs could be designed with safeguards so that the information was automatically recorded and sent to a central database. (details can be worked out).
3) The device by Sentinl perhaps could be removed by brute force, another reason why I think an integral locking mechanism would be better.

Having this implemented in no way hinders a citizen’s right to own a handgun or 20 handguns or 200 handguns. It places no additional burden on qualifying as a gun owner using MA as the model.

Thoughts?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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15-04-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
And here you go, the smart gun and the NRA’s fight aginst it.




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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15-04-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
"Smart locks"

Suuure....

Safe bet??

You'll NEVER see them on military or police weaponry.

I know cops who hate magazine disconnects -- they'd quit the force before being required to have a "smart lock" on their weapon.

.......................................

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15-04-2015, 03:28 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Follow up to smart guns and death threats




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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15-04-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 03:20 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  "Smart locks"

Suuure....

Safe bet??

You'll NEVER see them on military or police weaponry.

I know cops who hate magazine disconnects -- they'd quit the force before being required to have a "smart lock" on their weapon.

And yet it is law enforcement and the military who is clamoring for these according to the report.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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15-04-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:41 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Here, I'll use this example from the wikipedia page (which seems super credible since even this example still says "citation needed")

"Although the sale of untested drugs is illegal in the US and UK, manufacturers have circumvented legislation by labelling products "not for human consumption".[citation needed] Consumers still buy and use the products as drugs but vendors cannot be prosecuted as they have no control over the consumer after the point of sale."

The sale of untested drugs is still illegal, so these drugs being sold is still technically illegal, but the loophole sells them as something else. So while the sale of the drugs is illegal, the sell of the product in general is allowed under a different purpose.

The sale of guns to those not legally allowed to possess them is still technically illegal, but the loophole is that in most states, the seller is under no obligation in any way to ensure or check that the person buying the gun is legally allowed to do so. Making the purchase and sale still technically illegal while the law is (as written) unable to actually prevent this sale, as is its purpose.

Loop, meet hole.

Nope.
The drug company cannot be prosecuted because they are not breaking the law. They have circumvented it with an action that is not illegal.

The seller and buyer in an illegal gun sale can be prosecuted because they are breaking the law. They have not circumvented the law, they have simply broken it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-04-2015, 04:06 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(15-04-2015 01:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-04-2015 01:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  O rly?

What example did I give?

The wikipedia page. You forgot you linked that?

In not a single one of those examples is anyone breaking the law.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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