Poll: Do you think more guns means less crime?
Yes
No
I did until I saw these data
[Show Results]
Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-04-2015, 06:02 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
What we really need is something only found in dystopian novels. That is a mass social engineering of how people think and what people are allowed to do. If we allow all guns to be used at anytime without the need of a permit of any kind, waiting for background checks and waiting days to get them. Our country would be more like the middle east.

Take away everyone's guns, than we might run the risk of leaving the population defenseless against criminals who got theirs illegally, but at the same time with that, no one carries their guns with them.

How many times has there been a mass shooting, a bomb, school shooting, a robbery at gun point and the other person DIDN'T have a gun on them? Simply having guns will never make anything safer, it will just mean people will have them at home to make them "think" they are safer. If everyone in America who actually owned a gun suddenly carried it with them at all times no matter where they went from now one, do you have any fething clue how much gun crimes would rise in this sick twisted fucking country? A country where people are so cruel, heartless, greedy ass hats that they would trample people to death during the Christmas season and become enrated that the store had to close because they MURDERED a man?!

Just imagine all these people out there ACTUALLY carrying their guns with them at all times when they get into a no damage car accident or disagreement or ARE DRUNK!!!!! A bar closed down not too far from me in recent years that was AMAZING! It was called Shenanigans! It was massive in size and was actually multiple buildings with an outside area to sit in. Each part was stylized to be a different kind of bar. One was Irish pub, an outside place, a dark goth like rave with glow lights everywhere lol..

It got closed down and was notorious because too many people got into fights there with each other. Those fist fights closed down the bar. How much safer would America be if everyone had a gun?

Just imagine if all those people carried guns at that bar I mentioned. It would never had made it past the first two weeks of being open if that was the case.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Shadow Fox's post
19-04-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
I'd rather just get rid of alcohol. Now there's something completely and utterly useless that causes a lot of unnecessary death. But... it turns out banning something for which there is a large demand just creates a criminal market for it.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like yakherder's post
19-04-2015, 06:51 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 06:02 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  What we really need is something only found in dystopian novels. That is a mass social engineering of how people think and what people are allowed to do. If we allow all guns to be used at anytime without the need of a permit of any kind, waiting for background checks and waiting days to get them. Our country would be more like the middle east.

Take away everyone's guns, than we might run the risk of leaving the population defenseless against criminals who got theirs illegally, but at the same time with that, no one carries their guns with them.

How many times has there been a mass shooting, a bomb, school shooting, a robbery at gun point and the other person DIDN'T have a gun on them? Simply having guns will never make anything safer, it will just mean people will have them at home to make them "think" they are safer. If everyone in America who actually owned a gun suddenly carried it with them at all times no matter where they went from now one, do you have any fething clue how much gun crimes would rise in this sick twisted fucking country? A country where people are so cruel, heartless, greedy ass hats that they would trample people to death during the Christmas season and become enrated that the store had to close because they MURDERED a man?!

Just imagine all these people out there ACTUALLY carrying their guns with them at all times when they get into a no damage car accident or disagreement or ARE DRUNK!!!!! A bar closed down not too far from me in recent years that was AMAZING! It was called Shenanigans! It was massive in size and was actually multiple buildings with an outside area to sit in. Each part was stylized to be a different kind of bar. One was Irish pub, an outside place, a dark goth like rave with glow lights everywhere lol..

It got closed down and was notorious because too many people got into fights there with each other. Those fist fights closed down the bar. How much safer would America be if everyone had a gun?

Just imagine if all those people carried guns at that bar I mentioned. It would never had made it past the first two weeks of being open if that was the case.

If everyone had guns in this bar it doesn't mean they would be used. You are assuming there would be a wild west shoot out.

I tended bar at the only rock and roll in Prescott, Arizona back in the day. Whenever someone entered the bar they were to hand over any guns and knives and they were stowed away behind the bar. They were returned when the patrons left.

Ya know what else had to be surrendered? Bikers' leathers. Ya know why? Cause some dipshit walked his leather decked out girlfriend into the bar with a collar and leash. And no, they weren't bikers. However, the rednecks at the country bar next door didn't take too kindly to such shenanigans and barged in and caused quite the ruckus...nearly killing the guy.

So the bikers had to surrender their leathers even though they guilty by association, not by action.

You are trying to tie unrelated things together, just like the 'guilty by reason of leather'. Rein in that imagination a bit.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
19-04-2015, 07:39 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 06:51 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 06:02 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  What we really need is something only found in dystopian novels. That is a mass social engineering of how people think and what people are allowed to do. If we allow all guns to be used at anytime without the need of a permit of any kind, waiting for background checks and waiting days to get them. Our country would be more like the middle east.

Take away everyone's guns, than we might run the risk of leaving the population defenseless against criminals who got theirs illegally, but at the same time with that, no one carries their guns with them.

How many times has there been a mass shooting, a bomb, school shooting, a robbery at gun point and the other person DIDN'T have a gun on them? Simply having guns will never make anything safer, it will just mean people will have them at home to make them "think" they are safer. If everyone in America who actually owned a gun suddenly carried it with them at all times no matter where they went from now one, do you have any fething clue how much gun crimes would rise in this sick twisted fucking country? A country where people are so cruel, heartless, greedy ass hats that they would trample people to death during the Christmas season and become enrated that the store had to close because they MURDERED a man?!

Just imagine all these people out there ACTUALLY carrying their guns with them at all times when they get into a no damage car accident or disagreement or ARE DRUNK!!!!! A bar closed down not too far from me in recent years that was AMAZING! It was called Shenanigans! It was massive in size and was actually multiple buildings with an outside area to sit in. Each part was stylized to be a different kind of bar. One was Irish pub, an outside place, a dark goth like rave with glow lights everywhere lol..

It got closed down and was notorious because too many people got into fights there with each other. Those fist fights closed down the bar. How much safer would America be if everyone had a gun?

Just imagine if all those people carried guns at that bar I mentioned. It would never had made it past the first two weeks of being open if that was the case.

If everyone had guns in this bar it doesn't mean they would be used. You are assuming there would be a wild west shoot out.

I tended bar at the only rock and roll in Prescott, Arizona back in the day. Whenever someone entered the bar they were to hand over any guns and knives and they were stowed away behind the bar. They were returned when the patrons left.

Ya know what else had to be surrendered? Bikers' leathers. Ya know why? Cause some dipshit walked his leather decked out girlfriend into the bar with a collar and leash. And no, they weren't bikers. However, the rednecks at the country bar next door didn't take too kindly to such shenanigans and barged in and caused quite the ruckus...nearly killing the guy.

So the bikers had to surrender their leathers even though they guilty by association, not by action.

You are trying to tie unrelated things together, just like the 'guilty by reason of leather'. Rein in that imagination a bit.

All very good points. Part of my point I might stress is that most people these days in America do have guns. At least the majority does in some way or another. The thing is, just giving people more guns is not going to solve anything because they all don't carry them around. My point was that if they did start carrying them around with just the numbers we did today, gun crimes would increase, not decrease. So the right wing NRA nuts who think that it would decrease and keep em safe from da government are wrong. Because too many people have guns imo, but no one actually uses them or carries them for defense. Most people just want a shotgun for home protection or a hunting rifle. I believe this is as far as guns should go for civilians. A gun that can never leave your home unless transported for repair or another home purpose and a hunting rifle.

There really is no real reason to carry anything else. If some maniac charges in a theater shooting people with a machine gun, I highly doubt a guy with a pistol is going to become some super soldier and immediately start shooting back and gun down the guy Halo or call of duty style and save anyone in the theater.

There just is no reason to have anything outside of what you need for hunting and maybe one piece for your home. That is pretty much it. Anything else is useless and will just end up making more crime imo.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-04-2015, 07:46 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 07:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 06:51 PM)Anjele Wrote:  If everyone had guns in this bar it doesn't mean they would be used. You are assuming there would be a wild west shoot out.

I tended bar at the only rock and roll in Prescott, Arizona back in the day. Whenever someone entered the bar they were to hand over any guns and knives and they were stowed away behind the bar. They were returned when the patrons left.

Ya know what else had to be surrendered? Bikers' leathers. Ya know why? Cause some dipshit walked his leather decked out girlfriend into the bar with a collar and leash. And no, they weren't bikers. However, the rednecks at the country bar next door didn't take too kindly to such shenanigans and barged in and caused quite the ruckus...nearly killing the guy.

So the bikers had to surrender their leathers even though they guilty by association, not by action.

You are trying to tie unrelated things together, just like the 'guilty by reason of leather'. Rein in that imagination a bit.

All very good points. Part of my point I might stress is that most people these days in America do have guns. At least the majority does in some way or another. The thing is, just giving people more guns is not going to solve anything because they all don't carry them around. My point was that if they did start carrying them around with just the numbers we did today, gun crimes would increase, not decrease. So the right wing NRA nuts who think that it would decrease and keep em safe from da government are wrong. Because too many people have guns imo, but no one actually uses them or carries them for defense. Most people just want a shotgun for home protection or a hunting rifle. I believe this is as far as guns should go for civilians. A gun that can never leave your home unless transported for repair or another home purpose and a hunting rifle.

There really is no real reason to carry anything else. If some maniac charges in a theater shooting people with a machine gun, I highly doubt a guy with a pistol is going to become some super soldier and immediately start shooting back and gun down the guy Halo or call of duty style and save anyone in the theater.

There just is no reason to have anything outside of what you need for hunting and maybe one piece for your home. That is pretty much it. Anything else is useless and will just end up making more crime imo.

Other than Tombstone, at the time I spoke of, Arizona was open carry. It would have been easy for the whole incident to be a shoot out except that people opted for fists and not their firearms. I don't know if the county bar had the same rules we did for surrendering guns upon entrance. Regardless, all the rednecks would have to do was say they were leaving the bar, which they did...and come into ours with guns blazing.

Just because people have guns doesn't mean it's going to be their first choice for a weapon.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-04-2015, 08:00 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 03:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-04-2015 11:37 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  In America, 2/3 of the gun deaths are suicide, a fact often ignored by people pushing gun death stats.

Some 80-90% of first-attempt suicide survivors eventually die of something other than suicide. More than 95% of suicide-by-gun do not survive the first attempt.

I wonder how many people who cite suicide-by-gun as part of gun-death stats (arguing against gun rights) also support suicide rights?

This seems to me to be a case of wanting to eat your cake and have it too. Though it might sound tactless, if you support the right to suicide, arguing against guns for making it easier strikes me as a both-sides-of-the-mouth argument. Not that that's your stance, GM; I don't know your stance on suicide rights, and don't mean to impute to you views you don't hold.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-04-2015, 08:04 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 06:51 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 06:02 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  What we really need is something only found in dystopian novels. That is a mass social engineering of how people think and what people are allowed to do. If we allow all guns to be used at anytime without the need of a permit of any kind, waiting for background checks and waiting days to get them. Our country would be more like the middle east.

Take away everyone's guns, than we might run the risk of leaving the population defenseless against criminals who got theirs illegally, but at the same time with that, no one carries their guns with them.

How many times has there been a mass shooting, a bomb, school shooting, a robbery at gun point and the other person DIDN'T have a gun on them? Simply having guns will never make anything safer, it will just mean people will have them at home to make them "think" they are safer. If everyone in America who actually owned a gun suddenly carried it with them at all times no matter where they went from now one, do you have any fething clue how much gun crimes would rise in this sick twisted fucking country? A country where people are so cruel, heartless, greedy ass hats that they would trample people to death during the Christmas season and become enrated that the store had to close because they MURDERED a man?!

Just imagine all these people out there ACTUALLY carrying their guns with them at all times when they get into a no damage car accident or disagreement or ARE DRUNK!!!!! A bar closed down not too far from me in recent years that was AMAZING! It was called Shenanigans! It was massive in size and was actually multiple buildings with an outside area to sit in. Each part was stylized to be a different kind of bar. One was Irish pub, an outside place, a dark goth like rave with glow lights everywhere lol..

It got closed down and was notorious because too many people got into fights there with each other. Those fist fights closed down the bar. How much safer would America be if everyone had a gun?

Just imagine if all those people carried guns at that bar I mentioned. It would never had made it past the first two weeks of being open if that was the case.

If everyone had guns in this bar it doesn't mean they would be used. You are assuming there would be a wild west shoot out.

I tended bar at the only rock and roll in Prescott, Arizona back in the day. Whenever someone entered the bar they were to hand over any guns and knives and they were stowed away behind the bar. They were returned when the patrons left.

Ya know what else had to be surrendered? Bikers' leathers. Ya know why? Cause some dipshit walked his leather decked out girlfriend into the bar with a collar and leash. And no, they weren't bikers. However, the rednecks at the country bar next door didn't take too kindly to such shenanigans and barged in and caused quite the ruckus...nearly killing the guy.

So the bikers had to surrender their leathers even though they guilty by association, not by action.

You are trying to tie unrelated things together, just like the 'guilty by reason of leather'. Rein in that imagination a bit.

I've got a bud in Florida who used to bounce bars for Daytona's Bike Week. Biker colors cause more horseshit than guns, in his eyes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-04-2015, 08:05 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 07:46 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 07:39 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  All very good points. Part of my point I might stress is that most people these days in America do have guns. At least the majority does in some way or another. The thing is, just giving people more guns is not going to solve anything because they all don't carry them around. My point was that if they did start carrying them around with just the numbers we did today, gun crimes would increase, not decrease. So the right wing NRA nuts who think that it would decrease and keep em safe from da government are wrong. Because too many people have guns imo, but no one actually uses them or carries them for defense. Most people just want a shotgun for home protection or a hunting rifle. I believe this is as far as guns should go for civilians. A gun that can never leave your home unless transported for repair or another home purpose and a hunting rifle.

There really is no real reason to carry anything else. If some maniac charges in a theater shooting people with a machine gun, I highly doubt a guy with a pistol is going to become some super soldier and immediately start shooting back and gun down the guy Halo or call of duty style and save anyone in the theater.

There just is no reason to have anything outside of what you need for hunting and maybe one piece for your home. That is pretty much it. Anything else is useless and will just end up making more crime imo.

Other than Tombstone, at the time I spoke of, Arizona was open carry. It would have been easy for the whole incident to be a shoot out except that people opted for fists and not their firearms. I don't know if the county bar had the same rules we did for surrendering guns upon entrance. Regardless, all the rednecks would have to do was say they were leaving the bar, which they did...and come into ours with guns blazing.

Just because people have guns doesn't mean it's going to be their first choice for a weapon.

You may be right. I will consider these words later whenever I may speak again on this topic. Thank you for sharing.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-04-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 08:04 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 06:51 PM)Anjele Wrote:  If everyone had guns in this bar it doesn't mean they would be used. You are assuming there would be a wild west shoot out.

I tended bar at the only rock and roll in Prescott, Arizona back in the day. Whenever someone entered the bar they were to hand over any guns and knives and they were stowed away behind the bar. They were returned when the patrons left.

Ya know what else had to be surrendered? Bikers' leathers. Ya know why? Cause some dipshit walked his leather decked out girlfriend into the bar with a collar and leash. And no, they weren't bikers. However, the rednecks at the country bar next door didn't take too kindly to such shenanigans and barged in and caused quite the ruckus...nearly killing the guy.

So the bikers had to surrender their leathers even though they guilty by association, not by action.

You are trying to tie unrelated things together, just like the 'guilty by reason of leather'. Rein in that imagination a bit.

I've got a bud in Florida who used to bounce bars for Daytona's Bike Week. Biker colors cause more horseshit than guns, in his eyes.

Any bike week is a whole other animal. I can completely understand where your friend is coming from. We catered to people who preferred rock and roll over the many country music bars. It was the place the bikers could go, shoot pool, and hear music they preferred. They were definitely in the minority since Prescott is a multi-college town so our main clientele was college students.

I learned early in my time as a bartender to treat the bikers well - then I knew someone or many someones had my back.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
19-04-2015, 09:32 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(19-04-2015 08:00 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I don't know your stance on suicide rights, ...

It's the only truly inalienable right we have.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: