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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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20-04-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Things are changing in America, that's for sure. A new Pew research poll shows that 63% of Americans now believe gun ownership is the best way to stop crime. That's the highest recorded in a poll, and a huge swing over the last two years. Only 46% believed gun control is necessary, the lowest it's been in 25 years. Although crime rates have dropped, most people polled believe crime rates have gone up, most likely due to constant bombardment of criminal news related articles on TV and social media and the threat of lone wolf terrorism. People are more aware of crime these days and feel safer with a gun.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/pew-first-...GE.twitter

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20-04-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 11:28 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Then complaining that guns are efficacious seems a little disingenuous, imo.

Don't see how stating stats amounts to complaining. The only problem I have with suicide-by-gun is that it seems rather inconsiderate to leave a big mess behind for someone else to clean up. Nitrogen exit bag on the other hand is clean, quick, painless, even more effective than guns, and undetectable in an autopsy. No muss, no fuss and no excuse for the insurance company not to pay.

I'm admittedly ignorant about the details of the nitrogen exit bag, but can I assume there is some sort of actual bag? Unless you can somehow dispose of that while you're dying, wouldn't the presence of the bag itself constitute evidence?
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20-04-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(20-04-2015 01:41 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  Things are changing in America, that's for sure. A new Pew research poll shows that 63% of Americans now believe gun ownership is the best way to stop crime. That's the highest recorded in a poll, and a huge swing over the last two years. Only 46% believed gun control is necessary, the lowest it's been in 25 years. Although crime rates have dropped, most people polled believe crime rates have gone up, most likely due to constant bombardment of criminal news related articles on TV and social media and the threat of lone wolf terrorism. People are more aware of crime these days and feel safer with a gun.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/pew-first-...GE.twitter

I'm pretty sure that polls would also show that a significant percentage of people in America (maybe even a majority) believe that the Bible is true and that the theory of evolution is false. What Americans believe may or may not reflect what's actually true.
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20-04-2015, 03:32 PM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2015 03:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(20-04-2015 02:36 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'm admittedly ignorant about the details of the nitrogen exit bag, but can I assume there is some sort of actual bag? Unless you can somehow dispose of that while you're dying, wouldn't the presence of the bag itself constitute evidence?

I'd get by with a little help from my friends. Mutual agreements have been in place for decades now.




#sigh
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20-04-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(20-04-2015 11:58 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 11:49 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Sure -- but the lack of oxygen is sort of a dead giveaway, huh????


And that DOES show up...

My read on it, and I ain't no expert, is that death results so quickly (you're out in 10-20 seconds and dead in 3-4 minutes) that there is not sufficient time to noticeably alter the postmortem nitrogen/oxygen lung tissue ratio. From all appearances you just dropped dead.

Yabut, someone has to hide the evidence. Dodgy

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20-04-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(20-04-2015 04:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 11:58 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My read on it, and I ain't no expert, is that death results so quickly (you're out in 10-20 seconds and dead in 3-4 minutes) that there is not sufficient time to noticeably alter the postmortem nitrogen/oxygen lung tissue ratio. From all appearances you just dropped dead.

Yabut, someone has to hide the evidence. Dodgy

unless you had a timed retractable device located off the property that would remove the bag through a window or something after you've died...
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21-04-2015, 12:11 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2015 12:19 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-04-2015 11:28 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Then complaining that guns are efficacious seems a little disingenuous, imo.

Don't see how stating stats amounts to complaining.

In the context of your post, this is clearly a complaint, given the post you're replying to: "In America, 2/3 of the gun deaths are suicide, a fact often ignored by people pushing gun death stats."

You then reply:

Quote:Some 80-90% of first-attempt suicide survivors eventually die of something other than suicide. More than 95% of suicide-by-gun do not survive the first attempt.

The intention of your post was clearly to cast a negative light on gun ownership, right?

Hey, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

If you approve of suicide rights, citing suicide-by-gun numbers as an argument against gun rights belies your own values.

(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The only problem I have with suicide-by-gun is that it seems rather inconsiderate to leave a big mess behind for someone else to clean up.

Oddly enough, in your earlier complaint, you made no mention of cleaning up any messes; you only mentioned statistics. You're certainly trying to shift your argument, and that soap ain't washing.

(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Nitrogen exit bag on the other hand is clean, quick, painless, even more effective than guns, and undetectable in an autopsy. No muss, no fuss and no excuse for the insurance company not to pay.

... except the bag wrapped around the head, which, you know, kind of indicates suicide -- thereby voiding most life insurance policies.
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21-04-2015, 10:12 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2015 10:23 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(21-04-2015 12:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Don't see how stating stats amounts to complaining.

In the context of your post, this is clearly a complaint, given the post you're replying to: "In America, 2/3 of the gun deaths are suicide, a fact often ignored by people pushing gun death stats."

You then reply:

Quote:Some 80-90% of first-attempt suicide survivors eventually die of something other than suicide. More than 95% of suicide-by-gun do not survive the first attempt.

The intention of your post was clearly to cast a negative light on gun ownership, right?

Hey, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

Okay I will. You're wrong. Was just stating stats. No further intention. I'm ambivalent about gun rights.

(21-04-2015 12:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  If you approve of suicide rights, citing suicide-by-gun numbers as an argument against gun rights belies your own values.

I may be ambivalent towards gun rights but I am not ambivalent about suicide rights. Like I said the only truly inalienable right we have. You can't take that away from me. If you want to use a gun go right ahead. Just pointing out some implications you might want to be aware of.

(21-04-2015 12:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The only problem I have with suicide-by-gun is that it seems rather inconsiderate to leave a big mess behind for someone else to clean up.

Oddly enough, in your earlier complaint, you made no mention of cleaning up any messes; you only mentioned statistics.

If all I did was mention statistics how is that a complaint?

(21-04-2015 12:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(20-04-2015 10:49 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Nitrogen exit bag on the other hand is clean, quick, painless, even more effective than guns, and undetectable in an autopsy. No muss, no fuss and no excuse for the insurance company not to pay.

... except the bag wrapped around the head, which, you know, kind of indicates suicide -- thereby voiding most life insurance policies.

You clearly haven't thought this through as thoroughly as I have. Takes less than 5 minutes to dispose of the bag and tubing and put the tank back on the paintball gun. As to who's on clean up duty? Well, that's what life insurance beneficiaries are for now isn't it.

#sigh
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22-04-2015, 09:21 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Oops.
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25-04-2015, 08:10 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
A report on consensus gun science:
- Having a gun in the home increases suicide
- Having a gun in the home increases the risk a woman living there will be the victim of homicide
- Having a gun in the home makes the home more dangerous to its inhabitants rather than safer
- Guns are more likely to be used in a crime than self-defence
- More permissive carry laws do not reduce crime rates
- Strong gun laws reduce homicide
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-...story.html

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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