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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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25-04-2015, 03:55 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 03:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 03:44 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I would be willing to bet there are guns in nearly every house around us. So far, in the 8 years we have lived in this house, I have not been made aware of one single shooting. And this is Texas. It's not a lack of guns, it's responsible ownership.
Not one single shooting.
It seems you live in a safe neighborhood then.

Why then do you feel the need for a loaded gun in the house?

The biggest reason we have a loaded gun is that my husband works odd hours and drives through a quite 'not good' area to get to work. He carries it with him when he leaves at 4 am or earlier.

The other gun is here so that when I am here in the middle of the night alone I have something if I need it. Again, the first lines of defense are locks and dogs. Shooting is not the first choice.

We have had some home invasions - one right across the street from us. No one was shot. We aren't crime free, just not the trigger happy Clint Eastwood get off my lawn stereotypes.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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25-04-2015, 06:56 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2015 07:00 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 02:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 02:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It doesn't seem that there is an effective way to ensure only well trained, educated, careful people without anger issues and without jealousy issues and without vigilante heroism dreams and without murderous motives have guns.

There could easily be requirements that would help insure that.

We have such requirements in Maryland. But only for handguns not long guns. Which is as it should be.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-04-2015, 07:33 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 03:55 PM)Anjele Wrote:  We have had some home invasions - one right across the street from us. No one was shot. We aren't crime free, just not the trigger happy Clint Eastwood get off my lawn stereotypes.

Agreed. The rational choice is to use their corpse as fertilizer for the lawn. I'm all about giving home invaders a second chance to do something useful. Because I'm progressive like that.

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25-04-2015, 08:41 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 07:33 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Agreed. The rational choice is to use their corpse as fertilizer for the lawn. I'm all about giving home invaders a second chance to do something useful. Because I'm progressive like that.
I had a home invader once. She was a drunk neighbor. Was either looking to pinch some stuff or was genuinely lost IDK. She wasn't actually inside my house but was roaming around outside in the night on my property.
I went outside (unarmed), had a chat with her and escorted her off my property.

We have also had a couple of murders in my neigborhood. Both were domestics and included husbands killing wifes + others at residence with knives. Noone else in the neigborhood were in any danger.

I also once had an incident on the street when I was confronted by a drunk, large man, he charged at me, my best choice would have been to run, I stubbornly stood my ground, I treated it as if I was facing an angry dog, show no fear, stand your ground, don't provoke him. Eventually he walked away, I didn't need to show a gun, I didn't need any weapons, I didn't need to be big and strong, I didn't need to fight. The best thing I should have done would have to been run and I admit standing my ground was a mistake.

None of these incidence made me think it would be beneficial for my safety to get a gun.
Just because crime happens, it doesn't mean we are better off with guns.
When we make hand guns readily available then we are more likely to be a victim of gun crime than protected by a gun.
When a criminal confronts us with a gun, they already have the advantage, they already have a gun pointed at us. It can make a small 12 year old brave enough to attack me.

I think I am safer without handguns being readily available.
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25-04-2015, 08:50 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2015 09:25 PM by Anjele.)
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 08:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 07:33 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Agreed. The rational choice is to use their corpse as fertilizer for the lawn. I'm all about giving home invaders a second chance to do something useful. Because I'm progressive like that.
I had a home invader once. She was a drunk neighbor. Was either looking to pinch some stuff or was genuinely lost IDK. She wasn't actually inside my house but was roaming around outside in the night on my property.
I went outside (unarmed), had a chat with her and escorted her off my property.

We have also had a couple of murders in my neigborhood. Both were domestics and included husbands killing wifes + others at residence with knives. Noone else in the neigborhood were in any danger.

I also once had an incident on the street when I was confronted by a drunk, large man, he charged at me, my best choice would have been to run, I stubbornly stood my ground, I treated it as if I was facing an angry dog, show no fear, stand your ground, don't provoke him. Eventually he walked away, I didn't need to show a gun, I didn't need any weapons, I didn't need to be big and strong, I didn't need to fight. The best thing I should have done would have to been run and I admit standing my ground was a mistake.

None of these incidence made me think it would be beneficial for my safety to get a gun.
Just because crime happens, it doesn't mean we are better off with guns.
When we make hand guns readily available then we are more likely to be a victim of gun crime than protected by a gun.
When a criminal confronts us with a gun, they already have the advantage, they already have a gun pointed at us. It can make a small 12 year old brave enough to attack me.

I think I am safer without handguns being readily available.

Those are your experiences.

As a 5'4" female whose chest and upper body have been sliced and diced thanks to cancer, I don't really see standing up to an aggressor and acting tough to be my best option.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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25-04-2015, 09:36 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2015 10:11 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 08:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As a 5'4" female whose chest and upper body have been sliced and diced thanks to cancer, I don't really see standing up to an aggressor and acting tough to be my best option.

This would probably work as a deterrent if you answered the front door looking like this
[Image: bomb.jpg]

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-04-2015, 09:42 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
[Image: Scare_tactics.jpg]

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25-04-2015, 10:01 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 09:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-04-2015 08:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  As a 5'4" female whose chest and upper body have been sliced and diced thanks to cancer, I don't really see standing up to an aggressor and acting tough to be my best option.

This would probably work as a deterrent.
[Image: bomb.jpg]

That would really fuck up my reconstruction. Undecided

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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26-04-2015, 12:10 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(25-04-2015 08:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Those are your experiences.

As a 5'4" female whose chest and upper body have been sliced and diced thanks to cancer, I don't really see standing up to an aggressor and acting tough to be my best option.
Like i said, I should have run.
I certainly didn't act tough, I didn't want to provoke him, I gave him no reason to think that I was keen to have a fight.

I doubt this incident would have happened if I were a woman. But I understand woman are generally more at risk regarding muggings and rape.

Most rape occur by familiars rather than some strange lurker. Certainly I'd be advising women to avoid dark allez and try to stick to crowd. Avoiding situations is always better than being prepared for them. Don't feel brave just because you have a gun. Two people can fire a gun, you have a 50:50 chance of being the one walking away, but if they sneak up on you and draw the gun or knife first then you almost have no chance.

I think it best not to arm them with hand guns
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26-04-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Never the less, Stevil the consensus of the available research is that people who use guns in defensive situations are less likely to be injured than those who resist by other means.

Quote:Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004).

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page=16

That doesn't mean having a gun doesn't put someone at risk, but it does mean that if you are able to deploy a gun for self defense you are less likely to be injured or killed.

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