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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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29-04-2015, 02:53 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 02:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... Ya know, I think ol' Beardy's being pretty reasonable here. You guys are getting super heated about even the tiniest idea that perhaps guns aren't that great for society. Why can't you discuss objectively?

I am always reasonable you fucking asshole!!!!!!!! Censored Evil_monster

I'm sorry for that outburst...I am so hungry...

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29-04-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 02:53 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 02:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... Ya know, I think ol' Beardy's being pretty reasonable here. You guys are getting super heated about even the tiniest idea that perhaps guns aren't that great for society. Why can't you discuss objectively?

I am always reasonable you fucking asshole!!!!!!!! Censored Evil_monster

I'm sorry for that outburst...I am so hungry...

Hah. Joke's on you. Me fucking pussy. Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-04-2015, 02:58 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 02:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 02:53 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I am always reasonable you fucking asshole!!!!!!!! Censored Evil_monster

I'm sorry for that outburst...I am so hungry...

Hah. Joke's on you. Me fucking pussy. Tongue

Consider hmmm, touche

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29-04-2015, 03:19 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 02:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 02:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  These people needed them in LA in '92.

[Image: 58852252.jpg]

The guy in the foreground has a semi-automatic rifle, the second has a large capacity pump shotgun, the third appears to have a black rifle.

Because they would have been unable to protect themselves with handguns or shotguns?

They had pistols, shotguns, and rifles. Rifles have greater range and accuracy.

Quote:We have police forces and national guards to help when these types of events break out.

They weren't there.

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29-04-2015, 03:25 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 02:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 02:16 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Cars are are not designed to protect me or my family from nefarious invaders, guns are.

Less-Lethal weapons and locks and alarm systems are.

What world do you live in where there are constantly people trying to break in and kill you and your family? Especially if you had an alarm system going off (assuming you really care about defense and protection). Do you have that many enemies that they would break into your home with an alarm blaring and come hunt you down? If so, might I recommend witness protection?

These sorts of events happen daily - break ins, home invasions, murders. Riots and natural disasters happen with some regularity.

When the power is out, alarm systems don't work.
Locks slow people down, they don't stop them.
Less-than-lethal weapons are not very effective against multiple assailants.

I don't have any personal enemies (that intend bodily harm) that I know of, but that doesn't mean I'm not just as likely as the next fellow to be victimized.

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29-04-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 03:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 02:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because they would have been unable to protect themselves with handguns or shotguns?

They had pistols, shotguns, and rifles. Rifles have greater range and accuracy.

Quote:We have police forces and national guards to help when these types of events break out.

They weren't there.

Rifles do have greater range and accuracy, which are not necessary for self-defense.

The fact that we need better police and national guard response times and involvement, doesn't mean that we go to the opposite end of the spectrum in assuming that they can't be relied on to do their job.

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29-04-2015, 03:36 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 03:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 02:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Less-Lethal weapons and locks and alarm systems are.

What world do you live in where there are constantly people trying to break in and kill you and your family? Especially if you had an alarm system going off (assuming you really care about defense and protection). Do you have that many enemies that they would break into your home with an alarm blaring and come hunt you down? If so, might I recommend witness protection?

These sorts of events happen daily - break ins, home invasions, murders. Riots and natural disasters happen with some regularity.

When the power is out, alarm systems don't work.
Locks slow people down, they don't stop them.
Less-than-lethal weapons are not very effective against multiple assailants.

I don't have any personal enemies (that intend bodily harm) that I know of, but that doesn't mean I'm not just as likely as the next fellow to be victimized.

And crime rates are low enough in the US that these events are rarities.

Most home invasions don't occur when a residence is occupied.

Locks are a deterrence and can be used to prevent break ins. The point is that if you are arguing for better self defense and protection, these are the obvious steps to take to protect yourself and your possessions. But I don't see people lining up at home security conventions or alarm systems killing people.

And if you are seriously worried about home invasions and break-ins during power outages, get a generator to operate on back-up power.

Less-lethal weapons can be effective, the odds of being attacked by multiple assailants is low. Also, if you get jumped or assaulted by multiple attackers, I hate to tell you this but, your gun is not going to help you out any more than the taser or pepper spray (in fact, pepper spray would be great for multiple assailants).



The point is that people use the excuse of personal safety and self defense, but it is an excuse. In practice, there are other options (that could be far more effective and don't result in people dying over some trivial bullshit, like material objects).

By all means, defend yourself, we all have that fundamental right. But don't pretend that guns are this magic bullet that automatically confer some sort of immunity to harm. And certainly don't ignore the negative and adverse effects of guns (like the fact that people compulsively use them to kill themselves or a spouse).

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29-04-2015, 03:37 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 03:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 03:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  They had pistols, shotguns, and rifles. Rifles have greater range and accuracy.


They weren't there.

Rifles do have greater range and accuracy, which are not necessary for self-defense.

Sorry, no. You are limiting yourself to a subset of scenarios.

Quote:The fact that we need better police and national guard response times and involvement, doesn't mean that we go to the opposite end of the spectrum in assuming that they can't be relied on to do their job.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-04-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(29-04-2015 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-04-2015 03:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Rifles do have greater range and accuracy, which are not necessary for self-defense.

Sorry, no. You are limiting yourself to a subset of scenarios.

Quote:The fact that we need better police and national guard response times and involvement, doesn't mean that we go to the opposite end of the spectrum in assuming that they can't be relied on to do their job.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

More fear-mongering.

If fear can't compel me to believe in god, why would you think it would compel me that your arguments for guns are valid?

On that point, what separates your fear arguments from that of theists like Aquinas? Consider

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29-04-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
Fact -- we own the guns.

Fact -- we don't give a shit if you object.

Any questions?

.......................................

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