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"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
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01-05-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 10:45 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And for Christ's sake, get some better taste in movies. It's hard to respect anyone who can sit through a Sylvester Stallone movie.

I love 80's action flicks! Film related ridiculousness has never been quite the same.
How they adapted the Ninja craze of the mid 80's into Rambo films is a classic.
The secret is to think of them as comedies. Then it all make sense Thumbsup

Cheers!!
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01-05-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 04:35 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 07:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  What you are not considering is that with effective gun laws the likelihook of your attackers possing guns can go down considerably.

The trade off for making guns available to you is that you make those guns available to them also.
So now you are much more likely to face an attacker that is armed.

If you were both at the ready then you have a 50:50 chance of winning a shoot out. Doesn't sound great to me.
But it is more than likely that they sneak up on you, not letting you know that they are a threat. So they have their gun pointed at you, you have your gun under your jacket or locked in a safe.
What do you do when they demand your gun?
You give it to them. Now they have two guns and you have none.

Unless of course you have the talents of Rambo, in that last movie, wow, he pulled his gun out and shot for of them before they could even pull the trigger. Way to go Rambo!

You can't just wish or legislate guns away. They are here, millions and millions of them. The gun control laws only hurt the innocent.

Do you stupidly think there are no democratic voters own guns. I personally don't own one, but I do know dems who own them so will you please stop that paranoid bullshit that we want to get rid of all guns.

Once again this is NOT about rights. This is no different than having speed limits and traffic lights and making sure the highway isn't flooded with cars or unsafe vehicles no one should own like a military tank.

Australia had one mass shooting and put their foot down, no one thought doing that was going to turn Australia into a fascist state, AND SINCE they did the right thing, they still have guns, BUT THEY DONT have our flooded market and they don't allow everyone to get military style weapons and they dont hand them out like candy.

This is about MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY........Not your rights. Our climate of allowing big business to run everything also allows gun makers to do nothing to take responsibility for the flooded market they create. They use the NRA to scare gullible people like you into the "do nothing" "status quo" crap.

No, we have too much gun death, from both legal and illegal guns. I don't blame the gun owners. I blame the rich assholes who don't care about the climate they produce.

There are other western first world countries that are NOT fascist states that do not have anywhere near the gun death we do here. This is not just about guns, this really has as much to do with our pay gap and lack of investment and economic stability. The gun makers are simply using the same old blackmail tactics and fearmongering Walmart and the Koch brothers do with class issues.

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01-05-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 04:35 AM)KUSA Wrote:  You can't just wish or legislate guns away. They are here, millions and millions of them. The gun control laws only hurt the innocent.
I understand that some people assume the world = USA. They state "here" as if everyone is to assume that "here" = USA.
They discuss gun issues as if only USA is to be considered.

In many countries handguns are not prolific, even the crims don't tend to have them.
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01-05-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 05:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-05-2015 04:35 AM)KUSA Wrote:  You can't just wish or legislate guns away. They are here, millions and millions of them. The gun control laws only hurt the innocent.

... Because they prevent the innocent from getting guns so that they can shoot the guilty... who already have guns because they're guilty... God damn rule of law. It's a pity murder's illegal. We could just murder all the guilty in their beds. And the rich. Fuck the rich too. And lawyers. Fucken lawyers.
It would save a lot of money. We wouldn't need police or courts or prisons.
Just put some of that money into guns, give them away to the public and before you know it all the good guys will shoot and kill all the bad guys. I've seen Commando, bullets don't hit the good guys in the shoot outs.
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01-05-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 02:00 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Australia had one mass shooting and put their foot down, no one thought doing that was going to turn Australia into a fascist state, AND SINCE they did the right thing, they still have guns, BUT THEY DONT have our flooded market and they don't allow everyone to get military style weapons and they dont hand them out like candy.

Define "military style weapons".

Explain why they are different from the "sanctioned" guns you would allow.

.......................................

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01-05-2015, 02:26 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 10:45 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 07:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  The trade off for making guns available to you is that you make those guns available to them also.
So now you are much more likely to face an attacker that is armed.

Not so. Firstly, by definition, criminals are criminal because they disregard the law. Secondly, a black market for weapons already exists, in which criminals can avail themselves of the gun of their choice.
As evidenced in NZ, most crims don't have handguns. Due to the law and customs it is very hard for them to get them. It is very rare for a crime to involve a handgun and during police raids it is rare for them to find handguns.

(01-05-2015 10:45 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  In one's own home, the chances of winning a shoot-out would be more in favor of the resident, it seems to me; he knows the layout of the home even in the dark, which is when most burglaries occur. The likelihood of an intruder "sneaking up on you" in your bedroom would appear to be very low unless you have two entrances for the room.
I think perhaps you think criminals are stupid.
Given your level of superior "good guy" intelligence, what would you do if you were to invade a house that currently had occupants? Would you make it a priority to take out the occupants first, or would you go for the stuff and worry about the occupants only once they come after you?

(01-05-2015 10:45 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And for Christ's sake, get some better taste in movies. It's hard to respect anyone who can sit through a Sylvester Stallone movie.
Ahh, perhaps you are a Arnold fan or maybe Twilight is your cup of tea. all those wolfs I bet you were mentally considering how best to sneak up on a wolf and shoot it so you could put its mounted head on your wall in your trophy room.
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01-05-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 02:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I think perhaps you think criminals are stupid.


Of course they're fucking stupid.

Why would any intelligent person decide to be a B+E artist????

Intelligent people know how to make money without being a thieving douchebag.

.......................................

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01-05-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 01:17 PM)Bwolf74 Wrote:  I do train often and part of my training is how to brandish my concealed gun as quickly as possible, so I would like to think my chances are better than 50:50
A smart career criminal would see a gun as a necessary tool of their trade.
Like a mechanic sees a spanner.
Since it is such an important tool and since their "job" is so dangerous one would think they would put some serious time into learning how to use their weapon. They are possible very good at using a gun plus they have the added advantage of knowing a gun fight is going to happen, your position is reactionary, they have the advantage.

(01-05-2015 01:17 PM)Bwolf74 Wrote:  , but if I didn't have my gun my odds of survival in a shootout are more or less 0.0%
If they don't have a gun then your own survival chances go up tremendously, probably much higher than 80% which is much better than the 50:50 of an even shoot out.


(01-05-2015 01:17 PM)Bwolf74 Wrote:  Like I've said before; If you don't feel a gun is for you I completely respect that.
The deal is that I am more worried about the bad guys having guns and I think by allowing you to own a handgun then this makes it much more likely that they will have a gun.

If your argument is that they already have guns (because you live in USA) then I am no threat to you. My argument is for countries that don't already have gun problems. I don't want a government to open the gate and allow the handguns in in the first place.
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01-05-2015, 02:53 PM
"More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 02:00 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(01-05-2015 04:35 AM)KUSA Wrote:  You can't just wish or legislate guns away. They are here, millions and millions of them. The gun control laws only hurt the innocent.

Do you stupidly think there are no democratic voters own guns. I personally don't own one, but I do know dems who own them so will you please stop that paranoid bullshit that we want to get rid of all guns.

Once again this is NOT about rights. This is no different than having speed limits and traffic lights and making sure the highway isn't flooded with cars or unsafe vehicles no one should own like a military tank.

Australia had one mass shooting and put their foot down, no one thought doing that was going to turn Australia into a fascist state, AND SINCE they did the right thing, they still have guns, BUT THEY DONT have our flooded market and they don't allow everyone to get military style weapons and they dont hand them out like candy.

This is about MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY........Not your rights. Our climate of allowing big business to run everything also allows gun makers to do nothing to take responsibility for the flooded market they create. They use the NRA to scare gullible people like you into the "do nothing" "status quo" crap.

No, we have too much gun death, from both legal and illegal guns. I don't blame the gun owners. I blame the rich assholes who don't care about the climate they produce.

There are other western first world countries that are NOT fascist states that do not have anywhere near the gun death we do here. This is not just about guns, this really has as much to do with our pay gap and lack of investment and economic stability. The gun makers are simply using the same old blackmail tactics and fearmongering Walmart and the Koch brothers do with class issues.

I don't give a fuck about Australia or the NRA.

I have what you would call military style weapons and they are much better than what you would prefer me to have. The military uses these types of guns because they work so well. Why would I want an inferior tool for a job just because you don't like it? Who are you to decide what I have?
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02-05-2015, 12:21 AM
RE: "More Guns means Safer" the nonsensical pro-NRA argument
(01-05-2015 01:29 PM)Bwolf74 Wrote:  
(01-05-2015 10:45 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And for Christ's sake, get some better taste in movies. It's hard to respect anyone who can sit through a Sylvester Stallone movie.

I love 80's action flicks! Film related ridiculousness has never been quite the same.
How they adapted the Ninja craze of the mid 80's into Rambo films is a classic.
The secret is to think of them as comedies. Then it all make sense Thumbsup

Cheers!!

Some of them were great. I dug Eastwood's resurrection of Harry Callahan, m'self. "Goddamn it, Callahan, wherever you go, people have a funny way of dying!"
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