More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
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21-02-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 10:32 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 10:25 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "Waaah! Waaah! They don't believe what I believe because they want actual evidence with a logical connection between it and the claims. It is claimed that Jesus had a brother, so (somehow in my head) someone claiming to be the brother of Jesus is somehow evidence it's true! Waaah! Believe me because...reasons."


Is that the best you got?

And multiple first century sources, including a first-hand account, and non-christian, historical account, establishing a familial relationship between two people, is evidence, that leads very little doubt that Jesus did in fact have a brother named James. Not sure what other sort of evidence you're expecting here to establish that relationship.

Because clearly it's not going to be DNA, or archaeological evidence establishing this relationship.

For thousands of years, billions upon billions of Catholic Christians saw absolutely no problem in believing, claiming, and asserting that Jesus had no actual "familial" brother, and in fact billions of them, and Catholic scholars with FAR FAR FAR more real education than you have Tomato, continue to assert that TODAY.

You lose.

Hello wabbit hole.

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21-02-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 10:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  read what is written in response to you. Repeating the same things to you over and over again because you're lazy is tiring

Nice response.

TBD Logic: Written historical sources are not evidence for anything, without collaborating archaeological evidence. There's just a series of beliefs about things. That's your reasoning in a nutshell.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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21-02-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 10:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 10:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  read what is written in response to you. Repeating the same things to you over and over again because you're lazy is tiring

Nice response.

TBD Logic: Written historical sources are not evidence for anything, without collaborating archaeological evidence. There's just a series of beliefs about things. That's your reasoning in a nutshell.

Another straw man. When did I say that historical sources "are not evidence of anything"?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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21-02-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 10:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 10:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  read what is written in response to you. Repeating the same things to you over and over again because you're lazy is tiring

Nice response.

TBD Logic: Written historical sources are not evidence for anything, without collaborating archaeological evidence. There's just a series of beliefs about things. That's your reasoning in a nutshell.

Tomato logic: "If I ignore rebuttals that refute my claims/assertions, it is as if I am correct"

Since you seem hell-bent on ignoring things, I will repost another reply you've skipped: "Or to put it another way, if Jesus didn't actually exist, he didn't have a brother. So the brother claim becomes more probable once you show evidence Jesus is real. We will wait for the contemporary accounts and archeological evidence of Jesus now "

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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21-02-2017, 11:01 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 10:48 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  For thousands of years, billions upon billions of Catholic Christians saw absolutely no problem in believing, claiming, and asserting that Jesus had no actual "familial" brother, and in fact billions of them, and Catholic scholars with FAR FAR FAR more real education than you have Tomato, continue to assert that TODAY.

It's pretty obvious why Catholics would want to claim that, it's not because of scholarship, but to preserve the virginity of Mary, arguing things like James being a step-brother, from Joseph's previous marriage, or a cousin, etc..

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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21-02-2017, 11:11 AM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2017 11:16 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 10:55 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Tomato logic: "If I ignore rebuttals that refute my claims/assertions, it is as if I am correct"

Since you seem hell-bent on ignoring things, I will repost another reply you've skipped: "Or to put it another way, if Jesus didn't actually exist, he didn't have a brother. So the brother claim becomes more probable once you show evidence Jesus is real. We will wait for the contemporary accounts and archeological evidence of Jesus now "

I'll put it this way "If Jesus did have a brother, particularly when that relationship is multiply collaborated here, than he did exist."

You want an argument where this is conveniently left off the table, as evidence for a historical Jesus, but yea, that ain't happening. You want to find some way to get your brain to jump through hoops, to make your ridiculous reasoning work, but yet that aint happening.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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21-02-2017, 11:22 AM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2017 11:29 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
Quote:If we were to use your stupendous logic here, and applied it to Caeser, then than Commentries on the Gaelic war were allegedly written by Caeser, and claims to be a first-hand account of what happened during Gaelic War, from the alleged perspective of Caeser. Or we can extend to any other individuals writing about Caeser, that they were just alleged claims, and not evidence. "

Guys, you are arguing with sombody who still doesnt get the difference between atheist and atheists, someone who is arguing about the historicity of Caesar, but cant even write this name properly (Caesar, who is one of the most popular personas in all of history, all of it!), someone who obviously doesnt know the difference between Gaelic (Irish/scottish) and Gallic (French).

He not only is completely dishonest, but demonstrably doesnt even know what he is talking about, or at least doesnt care enough to care and even spell names and locations correctly.

You are arguing with that kind of person! Not to offend anyone, but dont you have standards? Rolleyes

Instead of arguing with Tomasia about Caeser and the Gaelic war, you just as well could talk to someone asking Australians about the Vienna Boys´ choir schedule

Tongue Tongue Tongue

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21-02-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 11:22 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  He not only is completely dishonest,

That dishonesty is your projection, my friend.

When atheists can't stick to the argument, they veer into personal attacks. But when they go low, we go high.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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21-02-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 08:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, I claimed it's a firsthand, eyewitness account. You're the one questioning it's reliability not me. Paul writings are historical evidence.

No, they're not. Paul never saw Jesus. He NEVER saw him at all. It's more of evidence that Paul existed than Jesus.

That's where I stopped reading. Drinking Beverage


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-02-2017, 12:05 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(21-02-2017 11:22 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
Quote:If we were to use your stupendous logic here, and applied it to Caeser, then than Commentries on the Gaelic war were allegedly written by Caeser, and claims to be a first-hand account of what happened during Gaelic War, from the alleged perspective of Caeser. Or we can extend to any other individuals writing about Caeser, that they were just alleged claims, and not evidence. "

Guys, you are arguing with sombody who still doesnt get the difference between atheist and atheists, someone who is arguing about the historicity of Caesar, but cant even write this name properly (Caesar, who is one of the most popular personas in all of history, all of it!), someone who obviously doesnt know the difference between Gaelic (Irish/scottish) and Gallic (French).

He not only is completely dishonest, but demonstrably doesnt even know what he is talking about, or at least doesnt care enough to care and even spell names and locations correctly.

You are arguing with that kind of person! Not to offend anyone, but dont you have standards? Rolleyes

Instead of arguing with Tomasia about Caeser and the Gaelic war, you just as well could talk to someone asking Australians about the Vienna Boys´ choir schedule

Tongue Tongue Tongue

My dear Deesse, don't you know its ill advised to try and take a bone or chew toy from the mouth of a dog especially if the dog is demolishing said bone/toy with such effective gusto. Tongue Big Grin
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