More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
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22-02-2017, 09:37 PM
More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(22-02-2017 05:15 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So there's nothing written during Jesus' lifetime and no record anywhere of his actions. If he was causing such a problem for the Romans you'd think someone would have taken notice and recorded it. Even Jewish historian, Philo Judaeus, doesn't mention him. Jesus might have been an actual guy but he couldn't have been all that special.

Well, Philo lived several hundred miles away in Alexandria, and indicated that he only visited Jerusalem once in his life time. His writing were primarily philosophical religious writings, and the primary historical events he mentions are local Alexandrian ones.

And you mention no records of anything Jesus did during his life time. But the reality is we only have one roman source of anything for that entire period of Roman Palestine, not just of Jesus but for anyone, including Pilate, whose arguably the most significant political figure of that area.

The next Roman blurb Pilate gets, is being mentioned by Tacitus, in the passage highlighting that Jesus was crucified by Jesus.

Atheists like to highlight the lack of contemporary sources beyond Josephus, present an argument from silence. But the reality is that silence covers that whole period and geographical area, not just Jesus.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-02-2017, 11:33 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
Quote:You sound like a creationist claiming evolution is highly contested, because their fringe doesn't accept it.


No doubt you can find jackass jesus freaks from some seminary to tell you that there is no doubt that a pharisaic jew like Josephus would suddenly out of the blue start yammering on about fucking jesus. And you will jump all over it because asshole xtians always do. You could care less about the historical realities as long as someone tells you that your bullshit is true.

Do try to remember that Origen (one of your churchie types) told us that Josephus DID NOT accept the jesus bullshit.

Quote:For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ

Origen, Contra Celsus Book 1 47

Perhaps between writing Book XVIII and Book XX Josephus had a brain fart?

Read some real history and not xtian horseshit.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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23-02-2017, 12:05 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(22-02-2017 09:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Atheists like to highlight the lack of contemporary sources beyond Josephus, present an argument from silence. But the reality is that silence covers that whole period and geographical area, not just Jesus.

Facepalm
Which widens the circle, not excludes Jesus.
Just more shit you can't say anything about.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-02-2017, 07:59 AM
More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(22-02-2017 11:33 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Do try to remember that Origen (one of your churchie types) told us that Josephus DID NOT accept the jesus bullshit.

Quote:For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ

Origen, Contra Celsus Book 1 47

Perhaps between writing Book XVIII and Book XX Josephus had a brain fart?

Read some real history and not xtian horseshit.


Perhaps you need to complete your argument here, Origin pointed out that Josephus didn't believe Jesus was the messiah, like most Jews, at the time...so?




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-02-2017, 08:02 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
Same stupid ignorant bullshit and straw men, new day. Tomato is a broken record of generic dishonest theist talking points. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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23-02-2017, 08:06 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(23-02-2017 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Perhaps you need to complete your argument here, Origin pointed out that Josephus didn't believe Jesus was the messiah, like most Jews, at the time...so?

Perhaps you need some history lessons as far as the perception of sources are concerned. I mean, real ones, as they teach at university.

Let me ask one simple question. Do you think the vita Caroli is a real and reliable source?

That might seem unrelated, but indulge me, consider it carefully and respond. It might make all the difference between taking you seriously and you just talking out of religious ass.
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23-02-2017, 09:37 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(23-02-2017 08:06 AM)abaris Wrote:  Let me ask one simple question. Do you think the vita Caroli is a real and reliable source?

Don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-02-2017, 09:56 AM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 09:59 AM by abaris.)
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(23-02-2017 09:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

Which is, from a historical standpoint, all I needed to know. The word Vita should have been sufficient if you knew the first thing on scientific evaluation of sources. Vita is a genre. And it draws a distinct line between how the people of old perceived history as opposed to how we deal with it now.
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23-02-2017, 10:02 AM
More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(23-02-2017 09:56 AM)abaris Wrote:  Which is, from a historical standpoint, all I needed to know. The word Vita should have been sufficient if you knew the first thing on scientific evaluation of sources.

Ah huh, is that it?




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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23-02-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(23-02-2017 10:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Ah huh, is that it?

Yeah, that's it. You have no clue how to evaluate pieces of literature. That's why they teach history, you know. So that you don't fall for the first text you like and start to hero worship it.

That's it and so much more. What I presented was only scratching the surface. But if you don't even get the meaning of that, you have absolutely no clue of how to deal with history.
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