More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
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26-02-2017, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2017 12:36 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 09:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No there's no magical line that excludes the writings of Christians from historical evidence regarding various aspects of their histories.

Strawman.
The proclamations of faith from much later writers (gospels) are not excluded, just not reliable.

Quote:And Paul writing of meeting Jesus's brother and disciples, indicating the various disputes he had with them is not stating his belief, but giving a first hand accounts of their encounters, and disputes.

They are accounts. You don't know who wrote them, (and since his CLAIMS from his
letters, and indeed the letters themselves were edited and re-worked) your CLAIM of "first hand" is not reliable, and you have NO EVIDENCE for your claims.

Quote:Secondly it's not just things written by believers, but written by non-Christian historians as well, Tacitus, and Josephus.

Not first hand in any way ... hear-say at best.

Quote:It totally depends on the nature and reliability of the sources, (which you are not competent to evaluate).

Quote:Person x writes of meeting person y, there's no archaeological evidence of their encounter. When would this not be a claim, or belief of person X?

You don't know who wrote what.

"SOMEONE wrote something".
That's all you know, and it's not evidence.

You know how many people claimed to have met Greek gods and other mythical people ? Don't be ridiculous.

You're in over your head, Tomato.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-02-2017, 01:07 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 10:57 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Yawn we're going round in circles, time for a silly derailing lets turn this thread into something more amusing on a dreary Sunday evening.... Question.......
Would you have gay sex with Toxic Tom for $1 million ?
Please give reasons why or why not Tongue Big Grin Laugh out load

I would watch you have gay sex with him for 100. Tongue

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26-02-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
I would watch Caesar have gay sex with Jesus for $0.02 but since only one of them existed, ain't gonna happen.

Oops.
Derailed the derail. Back to off the rails.

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26-02-2017, 01:27 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 12:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Quote:Person x writes of meeting person y, there's no archaeological evidence of their encounter. When would this not be a claim, or belief of person X?

You don't know who wrote what.

"SOMEONE wrote something".
That's all you know, and it's not evidence.

You know how many people claimed to have met Greek gods and other mythical people ? Don't be ridiculous.

You're in over your head, Tomato.

Ah okay, so written historical accounts, absent of archaeological evidence, eye-witness or not, are just claims and beliefs. "Someone wrote something: is all we know.

If not, then I want to hear absent of archaeological evidence, when this wouldn't be the case.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-02-2017, 01:31 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 01:27 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Ah okay, so written historical accounts, absent of archaeological evidence, eye-witness or not, are just claims and beliefs. "Someone wrote something: is all we know.

The procedure to deal with these texts has been posted one or two pages before. I guess you didn't read or comprehend.
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26-02-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 11:50 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 11:38 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Non-scientific evidence? What can that mean? We don't buy the opinions of later jesus freaks who claim their godboy wandered around doing all sorts of miracles?

Such "evidence" is not worth a puddle of piss.

We have volumes of correspondence from and to Marcus Tullius Cicero. Caesar is mentioned constantly as he was no friend of Cicero's. In your silly godboy's case even his alleged enemies don't seem to know about him. It takes a real asshole to try to conjure up a real person out of a poison stew.
Hence my attempt at humour, as far as I can make out this thread can go no further than it has. My desire is to point out the futility of arguing with this fellow, hence my taking the piss in a manner designed to annoy any fundamentalist christian although a thoroughly silly post it has its basis in pointing out the absurdity of the doctrines amongst Christians, ie intolerance, the belief that they have the right to control others love lives on the basis of a bronze age document etc etc.

I quite agree. You have to make your own fun in life!

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26-02-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
It seems to me that this asshole is using the Xerox method for evaluating "evidence."

If I make 500 photo copies of a document I cannot claim that such makes the original document 500 times more likely.

Yes, numerous jesus freaks wrote all sorts of shit about their godboy. So what? They are not contemporary accounts.

In fact, we have only 1 account. So-called "Mark." The others are copies and expansions of it for reasons known only to the authors. No one has any clue why whoever wrote "Mark" did so. It's a story.

Sadly, to this day there are shitheads who accept it as "gospel."

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26-02-2017, 01:47 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 01:27 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 12:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You don't know who wrote what.

"SOMEONE wrote something".
That's all you know, and it's not evidence.

You know how many people claimed to have met Greek gods and other mythical people ? Don't be ridiculous.

You're in over your head, Tomato.

Ah okay, so written historical accounts, absent of archaeological evidence, eye-witness or not, are just claims and beliefs. "Someone wrote something: is all we know.

If not, then I want to hear absent of archaeological evidence, when this wouldn't be the case.

Nice try. Fail. (Thanks for demonstrating you're in over your head).
The gospels are not "historical" accounts, and YOU have been provided references by real experts about that. What you CLAIM are "historical accounts" are not.

Do try to keep up.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-02-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 01:31 PM)abaris Wrote:  The procedure to deal with these texts has been posted one or two pages before. I guess you didn't read or comprehend.

What I observe is a community of atheists who acquired their very own fringe position, performing a series of mental gymnastics to keep it together. I'm just an observer following along in their performance, trying to put some order into their nonsense, deciphering a sort of pathological condition.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-02-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: More evidence for Jesus than Caesar?
(26-02-2017 01:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 01:27 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Ah okay, so written historical accounts, absent of archaeological evidence, eye-witness or not, are just claims and beliefs. "Someone wrote something: is all we know.

If not, then I want to hear absent of archaeological evidence, when this wouldn't be the case.

Nice try. Fail. (Thanks for demonstrating you're in over your head).
The gospels are not "historical" accounts, and YOU have been provided references by real experts about that. What you CLAIM are "historical accounts" are not.

Do try to keep up.

That's now what I asked. I'm asking questions to expand on your own criteria and methodology (or you mental gymnastics). So don't think of the question as being exclusively reserved for NT writings, or NT historical claims, just of ancient history in general. So I'll repeat them again.

So written historical accounts, absent of archaeological evidence, eye-witness or not, are just claims and beliefs. "Someone wrote something: is all we know.

If not, then I want to hear absent of archaeological evidence, when this wouldn't be the case.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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