Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
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17-01-2014, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2014 02:03 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
because this is just to priceless not to....

(17-01-2014 01:31 PM)maklelan Wrote:  "he IRS doesn't establish what are and are not churches....

The term "church" includes a religious order or a religious organization if the order or organization is an integral part of a church and is engaged in carrying out the functions of a church whether as a civil law corporation or otherwise. In determining if a religious order or organization is an integral part of a church, consider the degree to which it is connected with and controlled by. A religious order or organization carries out the functions of a church if its principal activity is religious in nature, such as the ministration of sacerdotal functions or the conduct of religious worship. If the organization claims to be or appears to be a church, it is subject to the requirements of IRC § 7611. Refer to IRM 4.76.7, Church Tax Inquiries and Examinations – IRC § 7611, for a discussion for a congressional intent and the requirements of IRC § 7611.

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17-01-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 01:46 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 01:20 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Lets look at the definition of religion and work backwards according the dictionary.

No, let's not. You really are a naive hobbyist when it comes to your own worldview. You haven't taken the time to study all that much at all.

What an enormously arrogant prick you are. Thumbsup

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17-01-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 01:08 PM)maklelan Wrote:  That's a rather silly false analogy, as proposing atheism was the remission of cancer presupposes the actual existence of the cancer.

Mak,
I have refrained from directly addressing you so far, but now you have deliberately misquoted Cathym who never said anything like the above. Assuming Cathym is a female, her analogy was perfect:

You believe you had cancer based on what others have told you or perhaps what you've read about symptoms in a medical encyclopedia. Similarly, you believe in Jehovah or JC or whoever else the LDS believe in, because of what others told you or because of what you read.

Like Alla, you may even have had inner promptings from "the Spirit" which convinces you that your faith is true. The medical analogy would be obscure symptoms that convince you that you have cancer but to an expert would simply be gas.

When you consult a doctor and he does all the necessary examinations and test and tells you that you do not have cancer and that you have labored under a delusion all this while, do you argue back and refute him or her? The doctor is simply saying at that point that you never had cancer, not that you had cancer once and that it is now gone.

Your rep is taking a hit with all your rhetoric. And, now this ploy of misquoting posts will only hurt you further. How seriously will the atheists here take you when you eventually have a red negative number hovering around your name? You may not care but I thought a friendly warning would not go amiss. Maybe you should quit while you are ahead.

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17-01-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  The founder can say whatever the hell he wants.

But you know better.

(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  He is not a 501©3 church recognized by the government as being a religion.

The US government determines all questions of religious identity?

(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Yikes. Do some research before you make claims for which there is no evidence.

Now you're getting desperate. You are well aware I have far more formal training and years of research into religion and its meanings than you do. Hell, I got into it with atheist astrophysicists at Oxford when I was a student there. You're bush-league, Cathy, you just can't understand my case well enough to know better. This is a weak and ridiculous appeal to some arbitrarily implied notion that the US government is the authority on what does and does not constitute a church. Absolutely laughable.

(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I can call literally call my running club "the church of runners" but that, in no way, makes it an actual church, unless of course I say the word church 3 times. beetlejuice. beetlejuice. beetlejuice.

Zing!

(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  No?

Of course not. What are we, in elementary school?

(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting...what is this then? http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopica94.pdf and this http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-076-006.html. not to insult your "intelligence" here...but a simple google search would have prevented you for looking like a complete. and. utter. moron.

I'm not the one insisting tax criteria published by the IRS has any actual bearing on an appropriate and informed description of what does and does not constitute a religion or a church. This is shockingly bad, Cathy. I assumed you had a rudimentary grasp of this stuff, but this is a joke.

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17-01-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 01:08 PM)maklelan Wrote:  That's a rather silly false analogy, as proposing atheism was the remission of cancer presupposes the actual existence of the cancer. In other words, your analogy pretends I'm insisting atheism is what's left over when true religion suddenly stops existing.

That is exactly what it means. The greek religion stopped existing..and now everyone is a Zeus Atheist. The Egyptian gods stopped existing, and now everyone - including you - is an Osiris Atheist.


(17-01-2014 01:08 PM)maklelan Wrote:  Religion was true,


if you never had cancer, no amount of thinking you had cancer made it true. Religion is the same. You are so close. Keep trying Thumbsup

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17-01-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 02:07 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Mak,
I have refrained from directly addressing you so far, but now you have deliberately misquoted

Nowhere did I quote anyone. I paraphrased and restated, but I never quoted her. I am happy to quote Cathy now, though, since there appears to be confusion:

Quote:Is it fair to say that your cancer is in remission (aka rejection)? Or is it more correct to say that you never had cancer to begin with?

Atheism is not the remission of cancer.

She is arguing against the notion that remission "(aka rejection)" is the cancer. This is the notion she is attributing me about atheism. I think atheism is rejection, therefore the remission of cancer. She stated so plain as day. I already explained why that is ludicrous. If you'd like to go back and reread until you understand what she and I were saying, I'll be happy to respond.

(17-01-2014 02:07 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Cathym who never said anything like the above. Assuming Cathym is a female, her analogy was perfect:

You believe you had cancer based on what others have told you or perhaps what you've read about symptoms in a medical encyclopedia. Similarly, you believe in Jehovah or JC or whoever else the LDS believe in, because of what others told you or because of what you read.

Like Alla, you may even have had inner promptings from "the Spirit" which convinces you that your faith is true. The medical analogy would be obscure symptoms that convince you that you have cancer but to an expert would simply be gas.

When you consult a doctor and he does all the necessary examinations and test and tells you that you do not have cancer and that you have labored under a delusion all this while, do you argue back and refute him or her? The doctor is simply saying at that point that you never had cancer, not that you had cancer once and that it is now gone.

And I'm well aware of that. Cathy suggested that the conceptualization I proposed was that atheism is represented by the remission of cancer, i.e., rejection.

(17-01-2014 02:07 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Your rep is taking a hit with all your rhetoric. And, now this ploy of misquoting posts will only hurt you further.

If you'd like to link me directly to the post where I actually quoted Cathy incorrectly, I'd be happy to apologize, otherwise, I'd appreciate it if you'd apologize for directly misrepresenting me.

(17-01-2014 02:07 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  How seriously will the atheists here take you when you eventually have a red negative number hovering around your name?

I really don't think it would be possible for me to care less about how many rep points I have.

(17-01-2014 02:07 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  You may not care but I thought a friendly warning would not go amiss. Maybe you should quit while you are ahead.

This is not a video game, and I'm not here to see how many points I can gather up. I'm here to correct misrepresentation. I appreciate your honest and sincere desire to try to help, but I find it a bit misplaced.

EDIT: You'll notice Cathy insists my paraphrasing of her point was exactly right. She went on to argue with my assessment of it, but that's immaterial. I look forward to you acknowledging your error.

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17-01-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 02:08 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  That is exactly what it means. The greek religion stopped existing..and now everyone is a Zeus Atheist. The Egyptian gods stopped existing, and now everyone - including you - is an Osiris Atheist.

But you would have to be suggesting that Zeus actually existed, and then stopped. Remission requires, by very definition, actual existence, not just belief in the existence. You haven't thought your analogy through very much.

(17-01-2014 02:08 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  if you never had cancer, no amount of thinking you had cancer made it true. Religion is the same. You are so close. Keep trying Thumbsup

I'm not the one trying here.

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17-01-2014, 02:19 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 02:17 PM)maklelan Wrote:  But you would have to be suggesting that Zeus actually existed, and then stopped. Remission requires, by very definition, actual existence, not just belief in the existence. You haven't thought your analogy through very much.

Yup. and I never said anything about remission equalling atheism, but nice reading comprehension skills. I said its more accurate to say that you never had cancer, than to say it was a remission.

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17-01-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 01:56 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  The term "church" includes a religious order or a religious organization if the order or organization is an integral part of a church and is engaged in carrying out the functions of a church whether as a civil law corporation or otherwise. In determining if a religious order or organization is an integral part of a church, consider the degree to which it is connected with and controlled by. A religious order or organization carries out the functions of a church if its principal activity is religious in nature, such as the ministration of sacerdotal functions or the conduct of religious worship. If the organization claims to be or appears to be a church, it is subject to the requirements of IRC § 7611. Refer to IRM 4.76.7, Church Tax Inquiries and Examinations – IRC § 7611, for a discussion for a congressional intent and the requirements of IRC § 7611.

This is a definition that serves only the purposes of collecting taxes. Your argument is getting increasingly grotesque and desperate.

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17-01-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 02:17 PM)maklelan Wrote:  I'm not the one trying here.

Understatement of the month.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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