Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
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18-01-2014, 07:13 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 07:52 AM by Cathym112.)
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 10:18 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 02:41 PM)maklelan Wrote:  I look forward now to your post criticizing Cathy for directly misquoting me. Here's the post, and here's what she altered my post to say:


So she's challenging the ostensible claim that I made that she equated remission with cancer. And here's what I actually said:


So she claimed I insisted she thought atheism was represented by remission in her analogy, and then chewed me out for it. Of course, she had to edit my post and remove the portion where I explicitly stated it was a position she was attributing to me. She left that rather critical portion behind ellipses. Please do reprimand her as you did me, given your concern for misquoting people.

Cathym,
Shame on you for editing Mak's post and altering the meaning. You made me lose face. As a colored person, I didn't have much to start with and you made me lose even that.

Mak, you sly dog, you. I was all set to apologize for misrepresenting your position when I went back and re-read all the posts. You went back and edited your original reply to Cathym, didn't you? Your original reply is nested within Cathym's reply to you. I knew I had read it different from the way it is posted now. So, no apology necessary, I take it? No hard feelings, eh?

Regards

Doc

I didn't alter the meaning of his quotes in the slightest. Deleting unnecessary and supernumerary vocabulary doesn't change te meaning. No shame here!

Btw - I did not catch that Mak altered his original reply to me

Mak - I'll take that apology anytime.

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18-01-2014, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 10:47 AM by maklelan.)
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 04:39 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Sooooooo I tried to see if Mr. Oxford was listed on the Alumni database. Negative.

I tried to see if he was showcased on the Hebrew and Jewish Studies website since he got such a high degree there....negative.

All told, there does not appear to be any record online that would indicate that he went to Oxford at all. Consider

http://www.ochjs.ac.uk/students/alumni/other-alumni/

What a surprise. You don't know how to research. Here, I'll do it for you:

Oxford Center for Hebrew and Jewish Studies Bulletin (see page 159)

Wolfson College Record (see page 64)

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Here's a bonus that you wouldn't have found online: a photo of my diploma

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18-01-2014, 07:57 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(18-01-2014 07:52 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 04:39 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Sooooooo I tried to see if Mr. Oxford was listed on the Alumni database. Negative.

I tried to see if he was showcased on the Hebrew and Jewish Studies website since he got such a high degree there....negative.

All told, there does not appear to be any record online that would indicate that he went to Oxford at all. Consider

http://www.ochjs.ac.uk/students/alumni/other-alumni/

What a surprise. You don't know how to research. Here, I'll do it for you:

Oxford Center for Hebrew and Jewish Studies Bulletin (see page 159)

Wolfson College Record (see page 64)

Blog Post with photo of my award and of me receiving my award

Here's a bonus that you wouldn't have found online: a photo of my diploma

[Image: MSt.jpg]

Then I stand corrected. All told, I didn't say definitely that you didn't go to oxford. I said that I couldn't find any evidence. Thanks for supplying it.

I'll still take that apology for altering your quotes and blaming me...

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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18-01-2014, 08:04 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 10:18 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Mak, you sly dog, you. I was all set to apologize for misrepresenting your position when I went back and re-read all the posts. You went back and edited your original reply to Cathym, didn't you?

I don't recall editing it in any way, but it's certainly a possibility that I corrected some grammar or clarified a point and simply forgot. If you can show me the quote that you believe was edited I'll take a look. If I did edit something and that's responsible for the issue, I'm happy to apologize.

(17-01-2014 10:18 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Your original reply is nested within Cathym's reply to you. I knew I had read it different from the way it is posted now. So, no apology necessary, I take it? No hard feelings, eh?

I don't really have any hard feelings toward you to begin with, it was more of an attempt to make another point that would ultimately be lost on everyone here anyway.

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18-01-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 05:40 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I've been away a few hours and I see we're still going nuts Smile ... Right Mak, I'm going to address a few points and deliberately not address some others ... You have mentioned a couple of times about whether or not you're wanted or welcome here? Yes, is the short answer for me. You and I have had some not so heavy but pleasant exchanges. As ex LDS, of course I have an interest in what you're contributing. I accept that certain facets of the LDS have progressed, I believe you and I to be very comfortable with each others opposing views as to why this has come about, with myself suspecting that it is through secular influence via the last 20 years or so, married with progression of the internet etc;

There has been some heat on here about the word atheist and the implications it has concerning belief. The best way to get my view across is explain my own personal position on this and hope you can see where I come at this from.

I am agnostic atheist and am more than comfortable to accept the label anti-theist.
Agnostic for me is honest. Pertaining to knowledge I can't claim to know either way.
Atheist is equally straight forward to me. It is literally no belief.
However, as an anti-theist this is where I hope to add some clarity and speak a little about beliefs. By anti-theist, I mean I'm opposed to theology the ideas not theologian the man. So I do have active 'beliefs' based on my world view. I disagree with things that may effect my life, or society I am part of like religious tax breaks. Religious input that impedes medical advancement (stem cell research) Dogma that damages children physically (circumcision) or impedes education (young earth creationism). Needless to say, I take the position that any beliefs I hold are from a position that can be supported by evidence, moreover the counter position can not, ergo anti-theist.

You have alluded to garden variety atheists etc etc: I understand you have also received your fair share of vitriol on here, again, for reasons of reiteration I bring this up because you have alluded to people who only really offered personal experience as input. I hold 2 degrees myself and have taught academically at college and university level. Don't misconstrue what I am trying to get at here but I bring it up to clarify my approach. I personally have spoken from experience only because my experience was that of LDS. I've been there, danced the dance as it were. I tend not to do lengthy posts full of references and citations because I use my phone for this forum, I'm inherently lazy and I sincerely believe that if people are that interested in anything being discussed they can look it up themselves or do what I do and ask for guidance, authors, book advice on places like this forum.

From my point of view, the thing people on here have in common, is a lack of belief in the supernatural and that's all. Beyond that any beliefs people may have come from different places, for me as I've said, anti-theism, someone else may subscribe to philosophy as a base, others humanism and so on. We meet on here and stand by our own merit. With that in mind, I extend the same courtesy to you and Alla. What I mean by that is, you are both Mormons and that's it, that's your common ground and from that point on I will take you as two individuals and judge you both as such on your own merit. Alla, who I'm sure is a nice enough person has not always made a good account of herself on here to say the least. Nobody reserves the right to not be offended, Alla seems to attract inflammatory retaliation. You have clearly defended her from a position of obvious good intention and inadvertently got yourself lumped in with some of her more ill conceived ramblings. ... Because of this the thread has descended in to Racist Mormons vs Garden variety atheists.

I am pointing all of this out in the hope that we can all take a moment to pause and get back to it. With that said it's da internetz, this is an atheist forum so expect to be attacked fairly hard! My issue with Mormon racism or perceived racism, is not that it was the cultural norm from it's time and place in history but the fact that to have culturally inherent racism inbuilt in the first place is yet further demonstration that it's just yet another man made religion and nothing at all to do with an unproven God.

Ps, the post is a bit rambling, sorry, typing this shit on my phone is a pain in the arse!

Thanks for your thoughts, Monster. I appreciate it.

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18-01-2014, 08:09 AM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 10:51 AM by maklelan.)
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(18-01-2014 07:57 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'll still take that apology for altering your quotes and blaming me...

I don't recall altering anything, and just barking otherwise doesn't really prove your point. I think I'm done here. Only one person had the integrity and self-respect to stand up for the truth. You and everyone else couldn't look away from your rhetorical prize for a second.

EDIT: I deleted that last comment. It was an unhelpful rhetorical swipe, and I apologize.

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18-01-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(18-01-2014 08:09 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 07:57 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'll still take that apology for altering your quotes and blaming me...

I don't recall altering anything, and just barking otherwise doesn't really prove your point. I think I'm done here. Only one person had the integrity and self-respect to stand up for the truth. You and everyone else couldn't look away from your rhetorical prize for a second. You and several others here are the most disappointing and naive atheists I've ever met.

You have been arrogant, condescending, disingenuous, and wrong about science and atheism.

Good riddance.

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18-01-2014, 08:26 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(18-01-2014 08:09 AM)maklelan Wrote:  I think I'm done here.

Some of us liked having you around. Stay cool. Thumbsup

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18-01-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(18-01-2014 08:09 AM)maklelan Wrote:  naive atheists I've ever met.

Just out of curiosity - what exactly is the crime about being a naive atheist?

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18-01-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Mormonism: A White Supremacy Cult? (answer: yes)
(17-01-2014 04:30 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  ... and YES I am also spirit...
Well this is interesting.

WitchSabrina Wrote:I have learned (and spent Many years of studying) that the human spirit is fine and well on it's own.
You don't say! This is exciting!

WitchSabrina Wrote:It requires no driving force to operate nor exist. Its originality need not be sought nor explained.
Yabut you just said that you've spent years, MANY years, studying your claim. Obviously someone had to seek out information that would declare and conclude that your claim "need not be sought nor explained."
More interesting than your declaration that this spirit cannot be explained, (convenient), is that you hold up this belief to counter alla's claim.
So, alla's inexplicable position can't be correct because your inexplicable position is.
Many years of study doesn't mean what it once did, it seems.

WitchSabrina Wrote:The mystery...
It's mysterious! I should say. Drinking Beverage

WitchSabrina Wrote:... of what the human spirit IS or where it came from I just don't care. And I won't willy nilly apply a source for it just for the sake of having one.
Well of course you don't care. You've spent years... Sorry, I mean, many years studying something that can't be explained. Even though you must care in order to willy nilly apply your unfounded belief as a rebuttal, which at this point, is only a rebuttal for the sake of having one.

WitchSabrina Wrote:I hope this makes sense.
That one's too easy to take a shot at.Laughat

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