Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
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07-06-2015, 10:37 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2015 10:40 AM by Learner.)
Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
Exodus 17 tells the story of God telling Moses to hit the rock in the desert for water to come out. Numbers 20 tells the story of God telling Moses NOT to hit the rock for water to come out...but Moses hits it, and then God gets mad. I believe these are two contradictory accounts. However, apologists point out these supposedly happened in two different places (two separate events) since it mentions it happening in two separate places. However, both stories are very similar and both refer to the waters of that place as being called "Meribah," so I believe clearly the same event seems to be in view...and the location got mixed up between two accounts.

Does anyone have any deeper insight into the passage to debunk the apologist and show these passages clearly in contradiction? Either way, even if we give apologists the case these are two separate events, I don't see how any Christian should feel upset at Moses hitting the rock when God told him not to...since the previous almost identical time God said TO hit it.
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07-06-2015, 10:38 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2015 10:42 AM by Learner.)
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
(07-06-2015 10:37 AM)Learner Wrote:  Exodus 17 tells the story of God telling Moses to hit the rock in the desert for water to come out. Numbers 20 tells the story of God telling Moses NOT to hit the rock for water to come out, but to speak to it...but Moses hits it, and God gets mad. I believe these are two contradictory accounts. However, apologists point out these supposedly happened in two different places (two separate events) since it mentions it happening in two separate places. However, both stories are very similar and both refer to the waters of that place as being called "Meribah," so I believe cleaely the same event seems to be in view.

Does anyone have any deeper insight into the passage to debunk the apologist and show these passages clearly in contradiction? Either way, even if we give apologists the case these are two separate events, I don't see how any Christian should feel upset at Moses hitting the rock when God told him not to...since the previous almost identical time God said TO hit it.

Oops...could an admin delete this duplicate post for me?
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07-06-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
Any sensible "supreme being" would have told Moses to drill a well....


Further proof that this "God" person, if real, is a bumbling idiot....


Yeah -- go beat on a rock - that'll help....

Duh....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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07-06-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
There was no Moses. There was no Exodus. At the time the story was supposed to have happened, there were ALREADY Semitic settlements in Canaan. 640,000 people wandering in a desert would have left at least ONE piece of evidence. There isn't even ONE.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-06-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
Completely agree with you, BuckyBall, and thanks for the resource. But I'm just trying to find clear contradictions that are quick and easy to point to when I talk to Christians. Like maybe starting with showing the problem in one specific passage, to then move on to broader issues...showing the infallible source is not infallible, then provide other resources.
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07-06-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
(07-06-2015 10:37 AM)Learner Wrote:  Exodus 17 tells the story of God telling Moses to hit the rock in the desert for water to come out. Numbers 20 tells the story of God telling Moses NOT to hit the rock for water to come out...but Moses hits it, and then God gets mad. I believe these are two contradictory accounts. However, apologists point out these supposedly happened in two different places (two separate events) since it mentions it happening in two separate places. However, both stories are very similar and both refer to the waters of that place as being called "Meribah," so I believe clearly the same event seems to be in view...and the location got mixed up between two accounts.

Does anyone have any deeper insight into the passage to debunk the apologist and show these passages clearly in contradiction? Either way, even if we give apologists the case these are two separate events, I don't see how any Christian should feel upset at Moses hitting the rock when God told him not to...since the previous almost identical time God said TO hit it.

Who is stronger....spongebob or bugs bunny?

There is nothing to argue here for two reasons, it is proven the Exodus did not happen, and it is considered a fact that moses didn't exist. So what moses allegedly did in reference to the exodus is a argument of fantasies.

Have them read this....or read it yourself as it breaks it down quite well, highly referenced, cited and peer reviewed.

Murdock, D. M. Did Moses exist? The myth of the Israelite lawgiver. Seattle. Stellar House Publishing. 2014. Print.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-06-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
(07-06-2015 10:55 AM)Learner Wrote:  Completely agree with you, BuckyBall, and thanks for the resource. But I'm just trying to find clear contradictions that are quick and easy to point to when I talk to Christians. Like maybe starting with showing the problem in one specific passage, to then move on to broader issues...showing the infallible source is not infallible, then provide other resources.

The infallible source is anything but.

Exodus never happened, proven by archaeologists and an army of christians who have tried for years to find evidence of 2 million jews marching around in the Sinai Desert for 40 years....of course the desert is only 120 miles across, sets along the water, and if the 600k slaves and their families, i.e. 2 million, were to line up in formation as per the fictional book declares, the front row would have been in the promised land and the back row still in Egypt. Never happened.

Moses also never existed.

hit them with my fav hammers....

No ONE who EVER wrote of jesus knew him...fact. The synoptic gospels were not written by Mark, Matthew, Luke and John, all hearsay written down by anonymous fans many years later based on stories.....and people LOVE to tell stories.

Major biblical miraculous stories all debunked, Great Global flood of 2349 BCE, Ark, resurrection, exodus, etc....many of the key characters never existed...noah, moses, etc.....dismantling the bible is child's play, I do it often, and well. Here is a link to some of my writings, feel free to peruse, use, or dismiss....

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rce-thread

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-06-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
I guess my approach with fundamentalists is that they don't care what history, archaeology, science says...they just believe the Bible. So I start with clear contradictions in the Bible, then back it up with other resources. This has just been my preferred approach...everyone's approach is different.
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07-06-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
Apparently you can get water out of a rock. Who knew?

#sigh
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07-06-2015, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2015 11:25 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Moses hitting the rock for water - 2 accounts
(07-06-2015 11:08 AM)Learner Wrote:  I guess my approach with fundamentalists is that they don't care what history, archaeology, science says...they just believe the Bible. So I start with clear contradictions in the Bible, then back it up with other resources. This has just been my preferred approach...everyone's approach is different.

Absolutely. Find your angle and get the conversation flowing...plant seeds they must go research to validate, thus they start down the epistemological path to truth via knowledge.

I like the jesus/synoptic gospels approach personally, they are quick to say "that isnt true".....and then I systematically prove it...using their christian scholar textbooks from a christian university written by christians that clearly state...yeah...they were written on these time frames, by anonymous authors....then they quote "christian tradition states that" blah blah blah, which means, our story is Matthew wrote matthew, even though the known facts clearly reflect otherwise. This approach works very well for me because the majority have never researched their own religion, and have no idea that the vast majority of biblical scholars clearly acknowledge these facts....finding this out begins to pick away at the blind faith they cling to.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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