Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
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30-01-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I find it somewhat ironic—after the thousands of civilian deaths caused by Muslim terrorists in Western countries—for the mosque's president (whatever that is?) Mohamed Yangu, to say "Why is this happening here? This is barbaric", and "This is deplorable".

It is barbaric. Deplorable. There is no irony.

(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I wonder if he said something similar to the press after 9/11, or Barcelona and Germany, or London terrorist attacks. And if he truly doesn't understand why this happened, then he must have his head in the sand as regards the open dislike of Muslims in Quebec.

Was he required to? Is he supposed to apologize for every crime a Muslim commits? Do you feel the need to apologize to strangers for every crime someone from your demographic commits?

(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Quebec has long been host to a simmering debate over religious accommodation; last October, the province began parliamentary hearings on proposed legislation that would ban anyone wearing a face covering from receiving public services—obviously aimed at the niqab or burka.

It does not justify the crime.

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30-01-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 05:59 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I find it somewhat ironic—after the thousands of civilian deaths caused by Muslim terrorists in Western countries—for the mosque's president (whatever that is?) Mohamed Yangu, to say "Why is this happening here? This is barbaric", and "This is deplorable".

It is barbaric. Deplorable. There is no irony.

(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I wonder if he said something similar to the press after 9/11, or Barcelona and Germany, or London terrorist attacks. And if he truly doesn't understand why this happened, then he must have his head in the sand as regards the open dislike of Muslims in Quebec.

Was he required to? Is he supposed to apologize for every crime a Muslim commits? Do you feel the need to apologize to strangers for every crime someone from your demographic commits?

(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Quebec has long been host to a simmering debate over religious accommodation; last October, the province began parliamentary hearings on proposed legislation that would ban anyone wearing a face covering from receiving public services—obviously aimed at the niqab or burka.

It does not justify the crime.

Tom, it is not a claim for justification, it is a statement that the mosque president is utterly tone deaf in regards to current events and human nature.
It is completely understandable, even predictable, that there will be those who believe "an eye for an eye".

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30-01-2017, 06:50 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 05:59 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I find it somewhat ironic...

It is barbaric. Deplorable. There is no irony.

You obviously don't understand what "ironic" means. The act itself wasn't ironic of course, but his comments were.

(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I wonder if he said something similar to the press after 9/11...

(30-01-2017 05:59 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Is he supposed to apologize for every crime a Muslim commits? Do you feel the need to apologize to strangers for every crime someone from your demographic commits?

My point was that this guy was all over the press corps telling them how disgusted he was that Muslims were killed, but if it had been Muslims killing infidels, then I'm betting he wouldn't have been as vocal. And as I'm not one of the leaders of a belligerent religious sect that foments acts of terrorism, I'm not required to offer anybody an apology for others criminal acts.

(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Quebec has long been host to a simmering debate...

(30-01-2017 05:59 PM)tomilay Wrote:  It does not justify the crime.

Maybe not, but the ongoing dislike by the Québécois of the Islamic population obviously sets the scene for this sort of thing. The core problem lies with the Canadian government allowing more than one million Muslims into their country. And that population has as one of its aims a societal divineness that causes exactly this sort of violent response. Many apparently passive Muslims now living quietly in Western countries believe in a subtle, long-term "divide and conquer" methodology in the West—rather than, necessarily, the outright use of weapons and bombs.

And you should know that Islamic mosques are the places that radicalise young, disaffected and impressionable male youths—as evidenced in the last 2 or 3 years here in Australia.

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30-01-2017, 08:08 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 10:57 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  So all the stuff we heard yesterday about this most likely being white christians motivated by Trump and anti-muslim hatred turns out to be untrue?

Excuse me. I have to go delete about 37 people from Facebook.

Not so fast....

BBC

Quote:On the social network, he also reportedly "liked" US President Donald Trump and French National Front leader Marine Le Pen.

Francois Deschamps, an official with an advocacy group, Welcome to Refugees, said the suspect was known for his far-right views.

"It's with pain and anger that we learn the identity of terrorist Alexandre Bissonnette, unfortunately known to many activists in Quebec for taking nationalist, pro-Le Pen and anti-feminist positions at Laval University and on social media," Mr Deschamps wrote on organisation's Facebook page.

DailyMail

Quote:Loner student 'who liked Trump, Le Pen and mocked Syrian refugees online' is charged with six counts of murder for gunning down Muslim men as they prayed in a Quebec City mosque

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30-01-2017, 08:49 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 06:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 05:59 PM)tomilay Wrote:  It is barbaric. Deplorable. There is no irony.


Was he required to? Is he supposed to apologize for every crime a Muslim commits? Do you feel the need to apologize to strangers for every crime someone from your demographic commits?


It does not justify the crime.

Tom, it is not a claim for justification, it is a statement that the mosque president is utterly tone deaf in regards to current events and human nature.
It is completely understandable, even predictable, that there will be those who believe "an eye for an eye".

I think that he should not expect his folks to be attacked on account of the crimes committed by others, even if they share a religion. It's a fair expectation, so I would not consider it tone-deaf that he expresses shock. He can be aware of what terrorists have done elsewhere, and still be outraged and shocked at a barbaric act.

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30-01-2017, 08:51 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 08:08 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 10:57 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  So all the stuff we heard yesterday about this most likely being white christians motivated by Trump and anti-muslim hatred turns out to be untrue?

Excuse me. I have to go delete about 37 people from Facebook.

Not so fast....

You need to remember that LDH seldom lets the facts get in the way of his opinions.

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30-01-2017, 11:12 PM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 10:57 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  So all the stuff we heard yesterday about this most likely being white christians motivated by Trump and anti-muslim hatred turns out to be untrue?

Excuse me. I have to go delete about 37 people from Facebook.

I'm actually surprised you have 37 people left on Facebook. I mean, how are you not already at 100% echo-chamber given your level of profoundly ignorant hatred and stupidity?

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31-01-2017, 01:21 AM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I find it somewhat ironic—after the thousands of civilian deaths caused by Muslim terrorists in Western countries—for the mosque's president (whatever that is?) Mohamed Yangu, to say "Why is this happening here? This is barbaric", and "This is deplorable".

I wonder if he said something similar to the press after 9/11, or Barcelona and Germany, or London terrorist attacks. And if he truly doesn't understand why this happened, then he must have his head in the sand as regards the open dislike of Muslims in Quebec.

Quebec has long been host to a simmering debate over religious accommodation; last October, the province began parliamentary hearings on proposed legislation that would ban anyone wearing a face covering from receiving public services—obviously aimed at the niqab or burka.

And the Canadian Council of Imams strongly denounced the laws. They also issued the statement linked below, which contains the following:

We, the imams who have signed below, hereby affirm and declare the following fundamental points:

1. We believe in the oneness of Allah (God) and in the oneness of humanity and that all the Messengers of God, including the final Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), have taught human beings how to come closer to God and closer to one another. Islam is a religion of nature and humanity, one that teaches that a person cannot be a good Muslim until he/she becomes a good human being. All human beings are equal, and all of them are the children of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them). The best Muslim is the one who is good to his/her family and neighbors and one who avoids harming others with his/her hand or tongue.

2. We believe in peaceful coexistence, dialogue, bridge building, and cooperation among all faiths and people for the common good of humanity. Islam does not permit the killing of innocent people, regardless of their creed, ethnicity, race, or nationality. The sanctity of human life overrides the sanctity of religious laws. Islamic rulings do not – and should not – contradict natural laws. Islam is a religion that promotes peace, justice, equality, dignity, and freedom for all human beings.

3. We believe in the preservation of all the necessities of life. Islam upholds the sanctity of religion, life, intellect, family/society, and property.

4. We believe that the well-being of our fellow citizens is the well-being of Muslims, and that the well-being of Muslims is the well-being of our fellow citizens. Being law-abiding people is part of the Islamic practice, and following the pristine teachings of Islam leads to good citizenship.


http://www.canadiancouncilofimams.com/ca...claration/

Bold emphasis my own. Now, you can call "bullshit" on that statement, if you like (I'm skeptical of many parts of it, certainly), but that's their official stance, signed by every major religious leader in that community, across Canada.

Claiming that the radical infiltrators (even if the number of Muslims worldwide who don't disagree with their radical actions is as high as 20-50%, as various estimates have claimed) in any way represent mainstream Western Muslims who have lived here all their lives or gotten free-and-away from the religious-crazy cultures is just plain bigotry.

One of the stated purposes of the Center that was attacked was to help incoming Muslims integrate into Canadian society-- that is, to leave behind the trappings of the old theocratic world they fled to come here.

Canada is setting a fine example of welcoming people, even at the potential cost of being harmed if some of the incoming Muslims happen to be the same sort of violent bigoted assholes as the non-Muslims that Canada obviously manages to grow at home.

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31-01-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
(31-01-2017 01:21 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(30-01-2017 05:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I find it somewhat ironic—after the thousands of civilian deaths caused by Muslim terrorists in Western countries—for the mosque's president (whatever that is?) Mohamed Yangu, to say "Why is this happening here? This is barbaric", and "This is deplorable".

I wonder if he said something similar to the press after 9/11, or Barcelona and Germany, or London terrorist attacks. And if he truly doesn't understand why this happened, then he must have his head in the sand as regards the open dislike of Muslims in Quebec.

Quebec has long been host to a simmering debate over religious accommodation; last October, the province began parliamentary hearings on proposed legislation that would ban anyone wearing a face covering from receiving public services—obviously aimed at the niqab or burka.

And the Canadian Council of Imams strongly denounced the laws. They also issued the statement linked below, which contains the following:

We, the imams who have signed below, hereby affirm and declare the following fundamental points:

1. We believe in the oneness of Allah (God) and in the oneness of humanity and that all the Messengers of God, including the final Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), have taught human beings how to come closer to God and closer to one another. Islam is a religion of nature and humanity, one that teaches that a person cannot be a good Muslim until he/she becomes a good human being. All human beings are equal, and all of them are the children of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them). The best Muslim is the one who is good to his/her family and neighbors and one who avoids harming others with his/her hand or tongue.

2. We believe in peaceful coexistence, dialogue, bridge building, and cooperation among all faiths and people for the common good of humanity. Islam does not permit the killing of innocent people, regardless of their creed, ethnicity, race, or nationality. The sanctity of human life overrides the sanctity of religious laws. Islamic rulings do not – and should not – contradict natural laws. Islam is a religion that promotes peace, justice, equality, dignity, and freedom for all human beings.

3. We believe in the preservation of all the necessities of life. Islam upholds the sanctity of religion, life, intellect, family/society, and property.

4. We believe that the well-being of our fellow citizens is the well-being of Muslims, and that the well-being of Muslims is the well-being of our fellow citizens. Being law-abiding people is part of the Islamic practice, and following the pristine teachings of Islam leads to good citizenship.


http://www.canadiancouncilofimams.com/ca...claration/

Bold emphasis my own. Now, you can call "bullshit" on that statement, if you like (I'm skeptical of many parts of it, certainly), but that's their official stance, signed by every major religious leader in that community, across Canada.

Claiming that the radical infiltrators (even if the number of Muslims worldwide who don't disagree with their radical actions is as high as 20-50%, as various estimates have claimed) in any way represent mainstream Western Muslims who have lived here all their lives or gotten free-and-away from the religious-crazy cultures is just plain bigotry.

One of the stated purposes of the Center that was attacked was to help incoming Muslims integrate into Canadian society-- that is, to leave behind the trappings of the old theocratic world they fled to come here.

Canada is setting a fine example of welcoming people, even at the potential cost of being harmed if some of the incoming Muslims happen to be the same sort of violent bigoted assholes as the non-Muslims that Canada obviously manages to grow at home.

More than one line of that affirmation raised an eyebrow, not the least of which because of flowery and ephemeral jargon. Honestly anybody who says anything about 'natural laws' with a straight face is going to cause me to do a double take. But the key take away is the subservience to civil authority, the core of secularism. Everyone gets a seat at the table, provided they act accordingly. Keep your goofy clothes and silly hats, so long as you're a law abiding citizen.

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31-01-2017, 01:37 AM
RE: Mosque Attacked in Canada - 6 dead, 17 wounded
I'd like to know what the guy could have said that wouldn't be considered ironic? "It's barbaric right enough but I can see why the boy would do it, after all radical Muslims in far away countries do this kinda shit all the time. Guess it's time we not-so-radical Muslims in Canada took a few bullets to prove we're on sides."?

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