Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
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05-10-2016, 02:01 PM
Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
I'm doing a rather large piece on the most compelling arguments made for the case of religion from the death of Lucretius onwards. I think that De Rerum Natura is a poem way ahead of its time and one that does not get as much recognition as it should as a passive refutation of religion.

I think that religion worldwide was defeated with the creation of Lucretius' masterpiece and will be writing an analysis of it while applying it to all of the major religious arguments from his death onwards. I expect it to be the only tool one needs in order to be convinced that there is no god, and even if there were, we have no need for god.

What are the most compelling arguments FOR religion that you've come across?

It'd be helpful to think of arguments that are made in different subjects too. From biological (lol) to metaphysical. These are the subjects which Lucretius addresses:

Books:
1: Matter and Void
2: Atomic theory
3: Mortality and the soul
4: The sense
5: Cosmos and civilisations
6: Weather and the Earth

I am particularly interested in mortality and the soul.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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05-10-2016, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2016 03:24 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
(05-10-2016 02:01 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  I'm doing a rather large piece on the most compelling arguments made for the case of religion from the death of Lucretius onwards. I think that De Rerum Natura is a poem way ahead of its time and one that does not get as much recognition as it should as a passive refutation of religion.

I think that religion worldwide was defeated with the creation of Lucretius' masterpiece and will be writing an analysis of it while applying it to all of the major religious arguments from his death onwards. I expect it to be the only tool one needs in order to be convinced that there is no god, and even if there were, we have no need for god.

What are the most compelling arguments FOR religion that you've come across?

It'd be helpful to think of arguments that are made in different subjects too. From biological (lol) to metaphysical. These are the subjects which Lucretius addresses:

Books:
1: Matter and Void
2: Atomic theory
3: Mortality and the soul
4: The sense
5: Cosmos and civilisations
6: Weather and the Earth

I am particularly interested in mortality and the soul.

There's not really any that are compelling, but their are some that are effective in baffling people with bullshit. Let's run down the list:

1: Matter and Void -Cosmological arguments or should I call them special pleading arguments?
2: Atomic theory - Have seen scriptures cherry-picked that are used to assert that the bible predicted atoms. See Hebrews 11:3 for their uncompelling post atom theory assertion. (Democritus)
3: Mortality and the soul- Uncompelling duality assertion of the mind not supported by any evidence.
4: The sense- Not sure what this is...
5: Cosmos and civilisations see #1, I've heard of assertions such as the Jews having laws about cleaning their hands before a meal or burying their waste. Seriously, that's their evidence? Facepalm
6: Weather and the Earth - Some used to think Thor caused thunder, and Yhwh caused the rain by opening the windows of heaven.

For pure nasty, evasive psuedo-science- I'll give an honorable mention to intelligent design. That is a damnable and deceptive idea that has fooled too many people.

Quote:I think that religion worldwide was defeated with the creation of Lucretius' masterpiece

I must have missed that, I'll have some Tequila to celebrate.....

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-10-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
An argument for religion.
It's a fantastic tool to get money, power & influence from gullible people.
If you want to retard a society and get them to turn away from science, then religion is for you.

If you want good people to commit atrocities, then religion is an excellent tool for waging war.
On the home front, you can even use it to get parents to beat their children and deny them health care when it's needed for their survival.
If someone you know is a pedofile, then you can use religion to have bible study specifically for children who are left alone with people that you, as a parent, don't really know all that well.

As far as mortality & the soul.
The ancient Egyptians believed that a human soul was made up of five parts: the Ren, the Ba, the Ka, the Sheut, and the Ib.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Eg...f_the_soul

I could invent 100 different ideas for some kind of after life energy construct, but it's all simply imaginary, just like the concept of the soul.
Spending time thinking about would make for some good ideas in fiction, but as a practical matter, not so much.

My last argument for religion would be if you want to poison everything around your life, take everything from religion super seriously.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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06-10-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
(05-10-2016 06:04 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  An argument for religion.
It's a fantastic tool to get money, power & influence from gullible people.
If you want to retard a society and get them to turn away from science, then religion is for you.

If you want good people to commit atrocities, then religion is an excellent tool for waging war.
On the home front, you can even use it to get parents to beat their children and deny them health care when it's needed for their survival.
If someone you know is a pedofile, then you can use religion to have bible study specifically for children who are left alone with people that you, as a parent, don't really know all that well.

As far as mortality & the soul.
The ancient Egyptians believed that a human soul was made up of five parts: the Ren, the Ba, the Ka, the Sheut, and the Ib.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Eg...f_the_soul

I could invent 100 different ideas for some kind of after life energy construct, but it's all simply imaginary, just like the concept of the soul.
Spending time thinking about would make for some good ideas in fiction, but as a practical matter, not so much.

My last argument for religion would be if you want to poison everything around your life, take everything from religion super seriously.

Hahaha well I think you misunderstood me because of the simplicity of my statement. I mean the argument for the TRUTH of religion. An argument for the existence of a religions deity and deities and how that particular religion is "true" and the others aren't.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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06-10-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
(06-10-2016 07:29 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 06:04 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  An argument for religion.
It's a fantastic tool to get money, power & influence from gullible people.
If you want to retard a society and get them to turn away from science, then religion is for you.

If you want good people to commit atrocities, then religion is an excellent tool for waging war.
On the home front, you can even use it to get parents to beat their children and deny them health care when it's needed for their survival.
If someone you know is a pedofile, then you can use religion to have bible study specifically for children who are left alone with people that you, as a parent, don't really know all that well.

As far as mortality & the soul.
The ancient Egyptians believed that a human soul was made up of five parts: the Ren, the Ba, the Ka, the Sheut, and the Ib.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Eg...f_the_soul

I could invent 100 different ideas for some kind of after life energy construct, but it's all simply imaginary, just like the concept of the soul.
Spending time thinking about would make for some good ideas in fiction, but as a practical matter, not so much.

My last argument for religion would be if you want to poison everything around your life, take everything from religion super seriously.

Hahaha well I think you misunderstood me because of the simplicity of my statement. I mean the argument for the TRUTH of religion. An argument for the existence of a religions deity and deities and how that particular religion is "true" and the others aren't.

So you want an argument for the existence of a fictional character with attributes that are logically impossible to possess.

By accident, I can give you all the winning lottery numbers for the entire year of 2166 and that is more likely to happen than what you're asking for.

You might as well ask for an argument that explains why I'm 1000 ft tall and microscopic at the same time, while taking a piss.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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06-10-2016, 04:13 PM
RE: Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
(06-10-2016 10:56 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(06-10-2016 07:29 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Hahaha well I think you misunderstood me because of the simplicity of my statement. I mean the argument for the TRUTH of religion. An argument for the existence of a religions deity and deities and how that particular religion is "true" and the others aren't.

So you want an argument for the existence of a fictional character with attributes that are logically impossible to possess.

By accident, I can give you all the winning lottery numbers for the entire year of 2166 and that is more likely to happen than what you're asking for.

You might as well ask for an argument that explains why I'm 1000 ft tall and microscopic at the same time, while taking a piss.

You understand arguments can exist without being true, don't you?

You're exhuming arrogance and seemingly searching for a couple of likes on your posts.

Instead of being a prick, don't reply at all. I am not trying to argue religion exists nor do I support any of the arguments I know. I am merely asking people for what they find the best arguments for the case of religion.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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06-10-2016, 05:11 PM
RE: Most compelling arguments for religion 55 BCE onwards
(06-10-2016 04:13 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(06-10-2016 10:56 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So you want an argument for the existence of a fictional character with attributes that are logically impossible to possess.

By accident, I can give you all the winning lottery numbers for the entire year of 2166 and that is more likely to happen than what you're asking for.

You might as well ask for an argument that explains why I'm 1000 ft tall and microscopic at the same time, while taking a piss.

You understand arguments can exist without being true, don't you?

You're exhuming arrogance and seemingly searching for a couple of likes on your posts.

Instead of being a prick, don't reply at all. I am not trying to argue religion exists nor do I support any of the arguments I know. I am merely asking people for what they find the best arguments for the case of religion.

I was just trying to nail down what you were looking for.
As I understand it, an argument is a set of justified reasons that explain an action or event.

Untrue arguments wouldn't contain justified reasons. Nor would they be able to explain anything.

Essentially, you're looking for lies that gullible people might believe as an explanation without really explaining anything.

Gotcha. I'm with ya now.

The sun in the sky is a living & breathing god that watches over us during the day. I can see this god and feel his warmth upon my skin. This god gives energy to all the plants in the world.

It also sends out souls upon the solar winds. You can see them in the night sky as Aurora Borealis.

My worship of the sun helps every child be born.
I would argue that without my prayers each day, fewer children would be born.

How's that ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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