Mother Teresa to be made a saint
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15-03-2016, 09:06 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 09:10 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yea, I know right, I mean she's the epitome of a fame whore, with an unquenchable desire even in her 80s for praise and recognition. A narcissist and a sociopath. A vermin on par with Hitler. A selfish bitch, who deserves a special place in hell.

Lying for Jebus ?
I said nothing like that. She had her reasons. YOU cannot judge what they were. She refused to return the ill-gotten funds. That was UNETHICAL. I see you never (among the many things you never did) took Ethics 101.


Quote:It's a game you should know well.
You are here to make yourself feel morally better than evil immoral atheists.

Quote:Sorry I don't play that game either, though I may have a variety of low opinions about individuals such as yourself, I'm not inclined to see myself as morally superior. And I have no qualms in admitting that in terms of being a moral person, there's likely to be plenty of atheists here who outshine me at every turn.

You do. You are so blind you don't even get it. You are ALWAYS making generalizations about atheists.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-03-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 08:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  When she was told it was ill-gotten money, she refused to take responsibility for the consequences of her using it for her purposes. That is unethical.

I don't see the ethical line here is all that clear. A variety of charities have benefitted form ill-gotten money, hardly any of them saw the ethical line here as clearly as you suggest.

And clearly the law hasn't provided any clarity here either. Perhaps a bill should be passed that obligates charities to pay back any donations that they may have received through ill-gotten gains, whether they knew this at the time or not? Rather than an act that is currently just a voluntary gesture, if you feel so strongly about it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-03-2016, 09:26 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 09:36 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:19 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  When she was told it was ill-gotten money, she refused to take responsibility for the consequences of her using it for her purposes. That is unethical.

I don't see the ethical line here is all that clear. A variety of charities have benefitted form ill-gotten money, hardly any of them saw the ethical line here as clearly as you suggest.

And clearly the law hasn't provided any clarity here either. Perhaps a bill should be passed that obligates charities to pay back any donations that they may have received through ill-gotten gains, whether they knew this at the time or not? Rather than an act that is currently just a voluntary gesture, if you feel so strongly about it.

Not so fast.
Bla bla bla. Of course you say you don't. You lose a point, then fudge it to attempt to muddy the waters. Many states and the Federal government ALREADY have ''clawback" laws. They're used all the time.
https://bernsteinlaw.com/publications-li...itigation/
Being illegal is not the same as "unethical' Nice try at moving the goal posts.

I guess returning ill-gotten/stolen funds is not "objectively moral".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-03-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Lying for Jebus ?
I said nothing like that. She had her reasons. YOU cannot judge what they were. She refused to return the ill-gotten funds. That was UNETHICAL. I see you never (among the many things you never did) took Ethics 101.

When you claim this was unethical, is that an objective statement, or a subjective one?

If that's what Ethics 101 would suggest, than I guess every other charitable organization that's been a similar situation, like the Boys and Girls Club, the Children's Aid society failed it as well.

And all you know is that some attorney wrote a letter, pleading with her to return Keating contributions, a letter which received no response, for reasons that are unknown to all of us. Perhaps she received it and passed it along to her superiors, to look into and handle appropriately. Perhaps she deferred the request to them. Perhaps she never saw the letter herself, as if she sits there and opens every letter she receives, and it was forwarded to those who were actively governing the charity at the time, which is all quite likely.

There's very little foundation on the Keating question to besmirch the character of a lady in her 80s at the time. You're more dependent on your own imagination, than anything else here. That whatever sort of nefarious portrait you try and paint, is more projection than fact.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-03-2016, 09:39 PM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Not so fast.
Bla bla bla. Of course you say you don't. You lose a point, then fudge it to attempt to muddy the waters. Many states and the Federal government ALREADY have ''clawback" laws. They're used all the time.

I'm not sure how I can lose a point on question of what's ethical or not, to folks who believe the question is subjective. There are no points if that's the case.

Quote:Being illegal is not the same as "unethical' Nice try at moving the goal posts.

Isn't what's ethical or not subjective?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-03-2016, 09:47 PM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She used it, for her own purposes. Purposes that propelled her to international fame, and recognition in the church of Rome, where she was feted with praise and recognition.
When she was told it was ill-gotten money, she refused to take responsibility for the consequences of her using it for her purposes. That is unethical.

Yea, I know right, I mean she's the epitome of a fame whore, with an unquenchable desire even in her 80s for praise and recognition. A narcissist and a sociopath. A vermin on par with Hitler. A selfish bitch, who deserves a special place in hell.

I'm not catholic, if you want to frame her that way it doesn't offend me, if that was your intention. But it reveals more to me about you than her. It's like the folks who demonize Obama a great deal, who reveal more about themselves in the process than they do about him.

Quote:It's a game you should know well.
You are here to make yourself feel morally better than evil immoral atheists.

Sorry I don't play that game either, though I may have a variety of low opinions about individuals such as yourself, I'm not inclined to see myself as morally superior. And I have no qualms in admitting that in terms of being a moral person, there's likely to be plenty of atheists here who outshine me at every turn.

Why would it at any point be known someone did something as took a sworn oath of poverty? Or stood up and gave speeches when asked.

A person can say... NO.. a person can sit and think and ponder. Will this, does this help people or is this manipulative? is this harmful? Is this maybe a biased perspective? And if one just was happy to be ignorant of that and was too focused on other details of the goodness to consider that... then it' snot an excuse to positive means.

When you're put into a position of power and don't refuse to stands to give a public speech or do guided tours. Your ignorance is no relevance to your actions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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15-03-2016, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 02:59 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Not so fast.
Bla bla bla. Of course you say you don't. You lose a point, then fudge it to attempt to muddy the waters. Many states and the Federal government ALREADY have ''clawback" laws. They're used all the time.

I'm not sure how I can lose a point on question of what's ethical or not, to folks who believe the question is subjective. There are no points if that's the case.

Quote:Being illegal is not the same as "unethical' Nice try at moving the goal posts.

Isn't what's ethical or not subjective?

No. I reject your simple-minded verbage. Your childish little black and white world will never be able to encompass reality. Your labels are meaningless. You have never defined nor said where you get "objective" morality, what it is in general or what "subjective" is either, and how they are different. Cultural values are LEARNED. If an action (using and keeping funds that were obtained by fraud) is stealing, THAT promotes disintegration of an ethical community. That is neither one of your stupid labels. By your personal definition, it's nothing more than the sum of a bunch of subjective opinions. Lots of subjective does not "objective" make. You don't even know what you're saying. It's not wrong because "stealing is wrong", it's wrong because of it's effect on the community.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-03-2016, 11:29 PM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 08:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  It is about me, when you ask what would it take to falsify this view. I find little reason to believe that morality is subjective, folks such as yourself and others hardly make a good case for it. And that whatever views you have of morality, lack any real introspection or depth, and offers no real account, or history of moral beliefs at all.

Your entire contribution to the subject amounts to nothing more than a desire to vent your spleen, more driven by your contempt than any real consideration of the question.

I literally can't even...

Projecting a reflection. Tommy doesn't like the looking glass, so he directly defines his own argument's lack of substance and attempts to paint it on the mirror. Problem is, he abhors the fact that there's no rock to stand on...not even a fucking turtle to boot. Poor TomTom's.

His only strength here is that his argument for objectivity is purely subjective. What a wonderful conundrum we find ourselves in. Consider

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-03-2016, 05:39 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
Wow, a religion making someone into something more than they were. That's something you don't see every day.

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16-03-2016, 05:47 AM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 05:52 AM by Tomasia.)
Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm not sure how I can lose a point on question of what's ethical or not, to folks who believe the question is subjective. There are no points if that's the case.


Isn't what's ethical or not subjective?

No. I reject your simple-minded verbage. Your childish little black and white world will never be able to encompass reality. Your labels are meaningless. You have never defined nor said where you get "objective" morality, what it is in general or what "subjective" is either, and how they are different. Cultural values are LEARNED. If an action (using and keeping funds that were obtained by fraud) is stealing, THAT promotes disintegration of an ethical community. That is neither one of your stupid labels. By your personal definition, it's nothing more than the sum of a bunch of subjective opinions. Lots of subjective does not "objective" make. You don't even know what you're saying. It's not wrong because "stealing is wrong", it's wrong because of it's effect on the community.


You claims it's unethical for the charity to keep the money, and refuse to answer whether this is objectively true, or just your personal opinion.

I claim it's not unethical, am I wrong? Is there a right or wrong answer to the question?

If it's subjective than there is there is no right or wrong answer, no objective grounding that can be appealed to make the case of unethical or ethical. It's just your personal opinion, like who the best pop star is.

You're an example of the sort of atheist who talks out of both sides of his mouth. You play lip service to subjective morality, only to find yourself contradicting yourself when push comes to shove.

All of a sudden you don't know the difference between subjective and objective when asked whether your claim about what's ethical or not is subjective or objective.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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