Mother Teresa to be made a saint
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16-03-2016, 05:54 AM
Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 05:39 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Wow, a religion making someone into something more than they were. That's something you don't see every day.

And wow, a swarm of atheists trying to demonize an old nun, using primarily their imaginations.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-03-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 05:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 05:39 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Wow, a religion making someone into something more than they were. That's something you don't see every day.

And wow, a swarm of atheists trying to demonize an old nun, using primarily their imaginations.

I'll stay out of the larger debate, I didn't know Mother Teresa well enough to judge her character, and I don't inherently trust media, that being the only thing I've got to go on in regards to her life. If I were going to bother getting into the meat of the conversation, it would be to attack the concept of miracles. But nah, I'm just here to insert random smartass, cynical comments from time to time. By all means, give her sainthood.

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16-03-2016, 06:34 AM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 07:03 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 05:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You claims it's unethical for the charity to keep the money, and refuse to answer whether this is objectively true, or just your personal opinion.

I claim it's not unethical, am I wrong? Is there a right or wrong answer to the question?

If it's subjective than there is there is no right or wrong answer, no objective grounding that can be appealed to make the case of unethical or ethical. It's just your personal opinion, like who the best pop star is.

You're an example of the sort of atheist who talks out of both sides of his mouth. You play lip service to subjective morality, only to find yourself contradicting yourself when push comes to shove.

All of a sudden you don't know the difference between subjective and objective when asked whether your claim about what's ethical or not is subjective or objective.

*Pats on head*
There there child. I get you need to keep the discussion at the First Grade level. . You define your terms, and tell us where you got them. As I have requested numerous times and you FAILED TO DO. I NEVER "paid lip service to subjective morality" you lying fucker. YOU are the one that did that. YOU said it came down to YOU knowing what was unethical and made you feel guilty. That was YOU "paying lip service to YOUR subjective experience". You're the kind of religionist who NEEDS to keep ANY conversation at the First Grade level as you lack any education in the law and/or ethics. What you claimed about the law was totally UNTRUE, and you were ignorant of it. Then you claim you inherently know stealing is bad. Yet when your old woman is the recipient of the stolen funds, (she wrote the fucking letter) you aren't so sure it was unethical. What a monumental waste of time to engage with you. Fuck off. (BTW, "there you go again"... you can't help yourself, can you ? making generalizations about atheists "you're the kind of atheist .... bla bla bla"... AS IF you even knew more than two.)

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16-03-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 06:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 05:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You claims it's unethical for the charity to keep the money, and refuse to answer whether this is objectively true, or just your personal opinion.

I claim it's not unethical, am I wrong? Is there a right or wrong answer to the question?

If it's subjective than there is there is no right or wrong answer, no objective grounding that can be appealed to make the case of unethical or ethical. It's just your personal opinion, like who the best pop star is.

You're an example of the sort of atheist who talks out of both sides of his mouth. You play lip service to subjective morality, only to find yourself contradicting yourself when push comes to shove.

All of a sudden you don't know the difference between subjective and objective when asked whether your claim about what's ethical or not is subjective or objective.

*Pats on head*
There there child. I get you need to keep the discussion at the First Grade level.
You define your terms, and tell us where you got them. I NEVER "paid lip service to subjective morality" you lying fucker. You're the kind of religionist who NEEDS to keep ANY conversation at the First Grade level as you lack any education in the law and/or ethics. What you claimed about the law was totally UNTRUE, and you were ignorant of it. Then you claim you inherently know stealing is bad. Yet when your old woman is the recipient of the stolen funds, (she wrote the fucking letter) you aren't so sure it was unethical. What a monumental waste of time to engage with you. Fuck off.

What a fucking epic response to a twat of the first water.Thumbsup

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16-03-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 06:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There there child. I get you need to keep the discussion at the First Grade level.
You define your terms, and tell us where you got them. I NEVER "paid lip service to subjective morality" you lying fucker. You're the kind of religionist who NEEDS to keep ANY conversation at the First Grade level as you lack any education in the law and/or ethics. What you claimed about the law was totally UNTRUE, and you were ignorant of it.

Clearly you need to sort out your own brain, if you find yourself unable to answer whether your claim as to what's unethical, is an objective or subjective statement. Whatever course you've taken on morality or ethics, that left you unable to provide an answer to this, has failed you miserably.

You're a man of many gripes, but offers nothing.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-03-2016, 07:07 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 05:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And wow, a swarm of atheists trying to demonize an old nun, using primarily their imaginations.

It's not necessarily in we atheists' imaginations. Teresa herself was considered at times to hold atheistic tenets as the truth.

Some years ago, Time magazine published a story about a decades-long crisis of faith in the life of Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu, better known as Mother Teresa. A biography, "Come Be My Light" consists primarily of numerous letters Teresa exchanged with her church superiors. These letters reveal that for the last 50 years of her life, she felt as if God had deserted her, and wouldn't respond to her prayers. Unable to feel any hint of God’s existence—"neither in her heart or in the Eucharist"—she lived in an enduring state of silent misery and despair. A couple of excerpts from Teresa’s personal letters reveal just how tormented she was:

"I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on whom I can cling — no, no One. — alone … where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness and darkness — my God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words and thoughts that crowd in my heart — and make me suffer untold agony."

"So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — if there be God — please forgive me — when I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul. — I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul."

"Darkness is such that I really do not see — neither with my mind nor with my reason — the place of God in my soul is blank — there is no God in me — when the pain of longing is so great — I just long and long for God … the torture and pain I can't explain."

It should be noted that she never intended these letters to become public and, in fact, had asked them to be destroyed. The church refused however.

—"Come Be My Light" was written by the Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk, who directs the Mother Teresa Center from Tijuana, Mexico, and who read through 6,000 of Teresa's letters.

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16-03-2016, 07:24 AM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 07:36 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 07:07 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 05:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And wow, a swarm of atheists trying to demonize an old nun, using primarily their imaginations.

It's not necessarily in we atheists' imaginations. Teresa herself was considered at times to hold atheistic tenets as the truth.

Some years ago, Time magazine published a story about a decades-long crisis of faith in the life of Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu, better known as Mother Teresa. A biography, "Come Be My Light" consists primarily of numerous letters Teresa exchanged with her church superiors. These letters reveal that for the last 50 years of her life, she felt as if God had deserted her, and wouldn't respond to her prayers. Unable to feel any hint of God’s existence—"neither in her heart or in the Eucharist"—she lived in an enduring state of silent misery and despair. A couple of excerpts from Teresa’s personal letters reveal just how tormented she was:

"I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on whom I can cling — no, no One. — alone … where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness and darkness — my God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words and thoughts that crowd in my heart — and make me suffer untold agony."

"So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — if there be God — please forgive me — when I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul. — I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul."

"Darkness is such that I really do not see — neither with my mind nor with my reason — the place of God in my soul is blank — there is no God in me — when the pain of longing is so great — I just long and long for God … the torture and pain I can't explain."

It should be noted that she never intended these letters to become public and, in fact, had asked them to be destroyed. The church refused however.

—"Come Be My Light" was written by the Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk, who directs the Mother Teresa Center from Tijuana, Mexico, and who read through 6,000 of Teresa's letters.

I think atheists tend to be more surprised by her struggles with her faith, than Christians, who have a long tradition that encompasses the dark nights of the soul. They even have depiction of Jesus crying out that God had forsaken him in his dying breath, shocking right? It's a feature prominent in great Christian literature, like the Brothers Karamazov, and Shūsaku End's Silence. Only those entirely remiss of this rich tradition within christianity find her letter's surprising.

Clearly the catholic church saw no issue with it, hence why they published the letters. To show that even she, as revered as she was, harbored at certain points in her life the sort of doubts and fits of disbelief as everyone else.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-03-2016, 07:55 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 05:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And wow, a swarm of atheists trying to demonize an old nun, using primarily their imaginations.

That is a lie.

You have been quoted books, web articles, newspaper/magazine articles, interviews and other sources. These are the primary sources of the anger against the Mother Teresa image.

You can disparage, dispute, refute, contradict or just plain disagree with those sources. But to say that we are all making it up is patently untrue.

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16-03-2016, 08:07 AM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 06:00 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 07:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 06:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There there child. I get you need to keep the discussion at the First Grade level.
You define your terms, and tell us where you got them. I NEVER "paid lip service to subjective morality" you lying fucker. You're the kind of religionist who NEEDS to keep ANY conversation at the First Grade level as you lack any education in the law and/or ethics. What you claimed about the law was totally UNTRUE, and you were ignorant of it.

Clearly you need to sort out your own brain, if you find yourself unable to answer whether your claim as to what's unethical, is an objective or subjective statement. Whatever course you've taken on morality or ethics, that left you unable to provide an answer to this, has failed you miserably.

You're a man of many gripes, but offers nothing.

Asking fools to define their terms, is not griping. I get that idiots in Bible College may think that, as that's what you get there. You cannot even define the words you use. I already told you, I reject your simplistic categories, and will not get sucked into your infantile game. You were given MANY examples which proven there is no such thing as "objective" morality. You cannot define it. You have not done it.

You're a man of many (meaningless) words, and many lies.
You offer LESS than nothing.

Can't your Jebus send in the "A" team ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-03-2016, 08:10 AM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 08:25 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(16-03-2016 07:55 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  That is a lie.

You have been quoted books, web articles, newspaper/magazine articles, interviews and other sources. These are the primary sources of the anger against the Mother Teresa image.

You can disparage, dispute, refute, contradict or just plain disagree with those sources. But to say that we are all making it up is patently untrue.

And there's plenty of books, web articles, magazine articles that defend, and paint a positive picture of her as well. There's plenty of books articles, demonizing Obama, website dedicated to demonizing Martin Luther King, etc...

You can point to those articles as much as you want, as much I can point to counter articles etc..., but I prefer to know what facts are they based on. What picture am I led to form myself in consideration of them.

People seem to invest a great deal into her association with Keating, when there's little there. Others take issue with her stance on abortion, contraception, the fact that she believed suffering can be redemptive, that she created hospices as opposed to hospitals, etc.. If any of this leads you to see her as the scum of the earth, on par with Hitler, deserving a special place in hell, then I feel sorry for your mothers.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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