Mother Teresa to be made a saint
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15-03-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 05:53 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 05:41 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  She was also a closeted atheist for most of her life.

There's irony. An atheist saint.

Unsure

so christians anoint sainthood to an atheist..... well this is gonna be humiliating for them when word gets out Laugh out load
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15-03-2016, 06:42 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 06:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 05:27 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  So a poor-hating, woman-hating, money obsessed sociopath is to be held up as a "saintly" person.

She was a woman who took pleasure in the suffering of others. She withheld medical treatment from the dying.

And now she's to be made a saint?

Seems legit.

And you based that on what?

Fox, Robin (1994). "Mother Teresa’s care for the dying". The Lancet 344 (8925): 807–808. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(94)92353-1

Larivée, Serge; Carole Sénéchal; Geneviève Chénard (2013). "Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa". Studies in Religion/Sciences Religieuses 42 (3): 319–345. doi:10.1177/0008429812469894

"Mother Teresa: Anything but a Saint…". U de M Nouvelles. 1 Mar 2013.

Bedford, S (1 Sep 2014). "Mother Teresa's Troubled Legacy". New Internationalist.

You want more?

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Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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15-03-2016, 06:49 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
She had some good publicity I guess so there is nothing surprising. If making her saint can make some kind of profit for church then saint she will be.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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15-03-2016, 07:07 AM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 07:15 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 06:42 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 06:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And you based that on what?

Fox, Robin (1994). "Mother Teresa’s care for the dying". The Lancet 344 (8925): 807–808. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(94)92353-1

Larivée, Serge; Carole Sénéchal; Geneviève Chénard (2013). "Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa". Studies in Religion/Sciences Religieuses 42 (3): 319–345. doi:10.1177/0008429812469894

"Mother Teresa: Anything but a Saint…". U de M Nouvelles. 1 Mar 2013.

Bedford, S (1 Sep 2014). "Mother Teresa's Troubled Legacy". New Internationalist.

You want more?

Clearly you didn't read the article I linked to, that pointed out the problems with much of this research, when you have articles primarily using the same sources, such as Hitchens works, that's a problem. When you have research that involves reading articles, as opposed to interviews with patients, those that knew her personally, worked with her, etc.. whatever portrait you paint of her likely to be inauthentic, driven by your own vitriol.

You can cite a variety of people, who have negative things to say about Theresa, but the substance of those arguments depends on the data it's based on. When you avoid interviewing actual patients, staff, those who personally knew her, you're not painting a faithful depiction of a person, but a deliberate caricature.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-03-2016, 07:15 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 06:30 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 06:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And you based that on what? Hitchens accounts, and the accounts by a handful of researchers?

More about that:

She read the report by the Canadian academics in its original French, and reacted with sadness, offering this first-hand testimonial in response:

"When I read the criticisms of how the patients were cared for in the Home for the Dying, I kept thinking back to my personal experiences there . . . . I know how tenderly and carefully we tended to each of the destitute patients there”how we bathed them, and washed their beds, and fed them and gave them medicine. I know how the entire shelter was thoroughly and regularly cleaned from top to bottom, and each patient was bathed as often as necessary, even if it was multiple times a day . . .

They were considered “untouchables” of society, and yet there we were touching and caring for them as if they were royalty. We truly felt honored to serve them as best we could. Mother Teresa had taught us to care for each one with all the humility, respect, tenderness and love with which we would touch and serve Jesus Christ Himself”reminding us that “whatsoever we do to the least of our brothers,” we do unto Him."

"After hearing from these supporters, I requested interviews with the researchers, and finally obtained one with Dr. Chenard. Her answers to my series of questions were both astonishing and revealing: She confirmed for me that her academic team did not speak to a single patient, medical analyst, associate, or worker of Mother Teresa’s before writing their paper against her; nor did they examine how all her finances were spent; nor did they speak with anyone at the Vatican involved with her sainthood cause, or consult the Vatican’s medical board which certified the miracle attributed to Blessed Teresa.The researchers had not even traveled to Calcutta, whereas even Hitchens, misguided as he was, at least did that.

As it turned out, this “research paper” was nothing but a “review of literature,” a repacking of what others had already written, with the academics putting their own negative spin on it. In other words, an indictment based upon no original research, and the author most frequently cited? Christopher Hitchens. Yet these “findings” made international headlines, and were repeated by many without objection."

http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusive...er-critics


Those like Hitchens who wrote negatively about her weren't driven by facts, but more so by their own polemical contempt for her. They weren't concerned about portraying a truthful account of her, but to feed contempt.

And what is ones own description of oneself driven by, facts as well?

Does responding to claims saying, I know we bathed them and gave them medicine mean anything to anyone on earth? What does that inform you off, absolutely nothing. But even that, what does it account for if they did that to the detail she says. Does it mean they heated the water to healthy levels to actually do a good health aid? Were supplies of medicine and distribution of them clean? Were their food supply

We bathed, fed, and gave them medicine says absolutely nothing as point alone. Your quote mining out of your intentions, whatever it may be, too often is like this. It means literally nothing to any defense, point, or even relevance of just existing as an added flavor of text. If any bit of context is given, it's clearly how susan conroy has even more bias to her connection. It's her benefit and adoration of a person that can be seen just as untrustworthy as something done out of "contempt" yet she also had no logic in her response to what constitutes clean.

Uhm, no, it's about two contrasting pictures of a person, one painted by folks like Hitchens, and another painted by those who knew her. Hitchens works is entirely polemical, like the sort of works about Obama composed by Dinesh Desouza, it feeds a certain audience not so much interested in the truth, but whatever feeds their own angry prejudices. It's the stuff of caricatures.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-03-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
I'm gonna add achieving sainthood to my bucket list. All the cool people are doing it.

'Murican Canadian
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15-03-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 07:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Uhm, no, it's about two contrasting pictures of a person, one painted by folks like Hitchens, and another painted by those who knew her. Hitchens works is entirely polemical, like the sort of works about Obama composed by Dinesh Desouza, it feeds a certain audience not so much interested in the truth, but whatever feeds their own angry prejudices. It's the stuff of caricatures.

Please show me links to the hospitals she built. Not convents for her own glorification or hospices for the dying. Hospitals to treat the sick. To the best of my knowledge, her money was spent on her ends, not the poor.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

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15-03-2016, 07:38 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Clearly you didn't read the article I linked to, that pointed out the problems with much of this research, when you have articles primarily using the same sources, such as Hitchens works, that's a problem. When you have research that involves reading articles, as opposed to interviews with patients, those that new her personally, worked with her, etc.. whatever portrait you paint of her likely to be inauthentic, driven by your own vitriol.

You can cite a variety of people, who have negative things to say about Theresa, but the substance of those arguments depends on the data it's based on. When you avoid interviewing actual patients, staff, those who personally knew her, you're not painting a faithful depiction of a person, but a deliberate caricature.

Oh but I did, and I find the evidence provided by Dr Robin Fox and Dr Aroup Chatterjee compelling, providing as they do, first hand accounts of the conditions and management of the homes in question as well as illustrating the obscene imbalance between moneys donated to the Missionaries of Charity and that actually spent to care for the sick.

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15-03-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 07:25 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Please show me links to the hospitals she built.

None as far as I know. How much more expensive do you think it is to build a hospital, with trained medical staff, and doctors, equipment, and medication, as supposed to creating a hospice? How many hospices for the dying can be made for the cost of 1 hospital?


Quote:Not convents for her own glorification or hospices for the dying. Hospitals to treat the sick. To the best of my knowledge, her money was spent on her ends, not the poor.

Yea, because someone who took on a life of poverty, and devoted herself to building hospices for the dying, was spending on her own ends. She had another life outside of her order, that consisted on fancy furs, and exotic cars.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-03-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 07:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 07:25 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Please show me links to the hospitals she built.

None as far as I know. How much more expensive do you think it is to build a hospital, with trained medical staff, and doctors, equipment, and medication, as supposed to creating a hospice? How many hospices for the dying can be made for the cost of 1 hospital?


Quote:Not convents for her own glorification or hospices for the dying. Hospitals to treat the sick. To the best of my knowledge, her money was spent on her ends, not the poor.

Yea, because someone who took on a life of poverty, and devoted herself to building hospices for the dying, was spending on her own ends. She had another life outside of her order, that consisted on fancy furs, and exotic cars.

But many of the sick were not dying. They were just that...........sick. They needed medicines and appropriate treatment. They certainly didn't need the medical neglect they were given in those establishments.

The vanity and self-aggrandisement of individuals is seldom predicated on material possessions.

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