Mother Teresa to be made a saint
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-03-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 09:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:13 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  If morality is objective it applies to god as well as man.

Shall we discuss the atrocities attributed to god in the bible?

Shall we discuss the AIDS Holocaust caused by catholic policies in Africa?

How about the pedophilia scandals?

Please.

Lets talk about morality. Evil_monster

You can't, you're entirely handicapped by your own moral beliefs from having that discussion, because at the end of the day whatever arguments you have as to what's moral or not amounts to nothing more than arguing that blue is a prettier color than red. You clearly won't be appealing to some objective standard, imagined or otherwise.

Yours are completely imagined. The are no "objective" standards, indoctrinated/delusional one. YOU have none. (You may *think* you do, but you don't.) YOUR own cult's-deity's standards have changed MANY times, and are situationally relative, and must be "judged" by individual brains (all very different) to be moral or not. So you are simply totally false, and your claims and pretended standard is false. Morality arose in human culture to promote survival and group forming standards. Try to grow up, and rid yourself of this childish crap you learned by rote at Babble School. There is no "objective standard" out there, despite your NEED to think there might be one, (as without it, you suffer from "uncertainty anxiety"-ie you have low ambiguity tolerance).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
15-03-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 10:57 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's the fucking point of calling her praise and worship and sainthood absolute bullshit. Oh I forgot.. you have to view it as either praising her of vilifying.

When you claim, "This women was a scourge on humanity.....Too bad there isn't a hell because this woman would easily qualify for entrance." your vilifying her, duh.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 10:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you want to vilify her as some moral monster based on aspects like her association with Charles Keating, you can go on right ahead, but it just says more about you than her.

You going to ignore the other valid points that have been raised?

How about the Haitians?

The Haitians are so poor that they routinely add dirt to their food. Just so they can feel like they've eaten more.

Duvalier stole millions from the Haitian people and gave it to Mother Teresa.
Did she build a hospital in Haiti?
An orphanage?
A soup kitchen?

While Mother Teresa may have taken a vow of poverty, I guarantee you that she never ate dirt.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 11:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Clearly you're neither a muslim, mormon, or a jew, so it's perhaps best that you don't speak for them. If us religious folks all believe that morality is objective, at least we're able to discuss what it means to be Good, to be moral, etc..., of our obligations and duties. You on the other hand are effectively removed from the conversation, because you don't believe in this one fundamental aspect here, that for others is self-evident.

Until you can clearly demonstrate how morality is objective, you cannot claim your morality is so based.
At least not with a straight face.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:17 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 11:13 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you want to vilify her as some moral monster based on aspects like her association with Charles Keating, you can go on right ahead, but it just says more You going to ignore the other valid points that have been raised?

How about the Haitians?

The Haitians are so poor that they routinely add dirt to their food. Just so they can feel like they've eaten more.
about you than her.


Duvalier stole millions from the Haitian people and gave it to Mother Teresa.
Did she build a hospital in Haiti?
An orphanage?
A soup kitchen?

While Mother Teresa may have taken a vow of poverty, I guarantee you that she never ate dirt.

But she preached the gospel to them. Surely Jebus filled their nutritional needs.
Weeping
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:22 AM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 11:32 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 11:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 10:57 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's the fucking point of calling her praise and worship and sainthood absolute bullshit. Oh I forgot.. you have to view it as either praising her of vilifying.

When you claim, "This women was a scourge on humanity.....Too bad there isn't a hell because this woman would easily qualify for entrance." your vilifying her, duh.

You firsted used that point, which you used 3 times still, about simply facts. Arguing that you find facts against but that's just like making a caricature of another person.

It's an all or nothing view out of you. I'm not talking about your 1 respond to your 1 statement back. It's your totality of repeated points following from the start. It's about your grand points of ignorance being okay & making a caricature, yet somehow you think that it suddenly after a post all about that shifted to just a response about 1 statement... that line of thinking doesn't make any sense. The post was clearly way more about the 1st longer post of yours anyway, the only reason I continued it off the other was because you chose to reiterate the same works both ways analogy again.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 11:13 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The are is no "objective" standards, indoctrinated/delusional one. YOU have none. (You may *think* you do, but you don't.) YOUR own cult's-deity's standards have changed MANY times, and are situationally relative, and must be "judged" by individual brains (all very different) to be moral or not. So you are simply totally false, and your claims and pretended standard is false. Morality arose in human culture to promote survival and group forming standards. Try to grow up, and rid yourself of this childish crap you learned by rote at Babble School. There is no "objective standard" out there, despite your NEED to think there might be one, (as without it, you suffer from "uncertainty anxiety"-ie you have low ambiguity tolerance).

I don't think the crowd that imagines the morality is subjective, a matter of decorative frills, are the adults in the audience. I don't think folks are inclined to imagine the moral perspectives of folks like Rev. King, Desmond Tutu, etc.. are childish.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 11:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In the same breath, until you can demonstrate there's some objective standard being appealed to here to frame God's actions or anyone else's immoral, all discussions about what's moral or not, are moot.
Secular and subjective morality is all that exists. Until you prove your god, you have nothing but contradictions.

(15-03-2016 11:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Whatever accusations of whats immoral or not, based on your own presuppositional beliefs about morality, are entirely worthless.
Not as worthless as those based on delusions and schizophrenic hallucinations.

(15-03-2016 11:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Clearly you're neither a muslim, mormon, or a jew, so it's perhaps best that you don't speak for them. If us religious folks all believe that morality is objective, at least we're able to discuss what it means to be Good, to be moral, etc..., of our obligations and duties. You on the other hand are effectively removed from the conversation, because you don't believe in this one fundamental aspect here, that for others is self-evident.
I'm not speaking for any religion. I am noting the differences in the ethical codes proclaimed by each. Do you deny that there are incompatible differences between the various religions? Are you going to be that dishonest?

You get your morality from god? From the bible? Let's take a peek, shall we?
How about Abraham and Isaac?

The voices in Abraham's head, "god" told him to take his son/nephew (since Sarah was his sister...) and sacrifice him. The reason? To prove his love/devotion to god. And just to be clear, he was rewarded because he was going to do it.

Do I need to quote the various news stories about the dead babies whose parents where acting on gods orders? Were they right or wrong?
If they were wrong then so was Abraham. So was god.



Is it moral to kill a child to prove your devotion to something/someone?

Your morality says "Yes." Mine says "No."

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Fatbaldhobbit's post
15-03-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 06:42 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  Fox, Robin (1994). "Mother Teresa’s care for the dying". The Lancet 344 (8925): 807–808. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(94)92353-1

Larivée, Serge; Carole Sénéchal; Geneviève Chénard (2013). "Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa". Studies in Religion/Sciences Religieuses 42 (3): 319–345. doi:10.1177/0008429812469894

"Mother Teresa: Anything but a Saint…". U de M Nouvelles. 1 Mar 2013.

Bedford, S (1 Sep 2014). "Mother Teresa's Troubled Legacy". New Internationalist.

You want more?

Clearly you didn't read the article I linked to, that pointed out the problems with much of this research, when you have articles primarily using the same sources, such as Hitchens works, that's a problem. When you have research that involves reading articles, as opposed to interviews with patients, those that knew her personally, worked with her, etc.. whatever portrait you paint of her likely to be inauthentic, driven by your own vitriol.

You can cite a variety of people, who have negative things to say about Theresa, but the substance of those arguments depends on the data it's based on. When you avoid interviewing actual patients, staff, those who personally knew her, you're not painting a faithful depiction of a person, but a deliberate caricature.

Tom. None of Hitchen's work even suggested she lost her faith. In an interview, he said he was completely shocked these letters existed.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-03-2016, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 12:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Mother Teresa to be made a saint
(15-03-2016 11:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 11:13 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The are is no "objective" standards, indoctrinated/delusional one. YOU have none. (You may *think* you do, but you don't.) YOUR own cult's-deity's standards have changed MANY times, and are situationally relative, and must be "judged" by individual brains (all very different) to be moral or not. So you are simply totally false, and your claims and pretended standard is false. Morality arose in human culture to promote survival and group forming standards. Try to grow up, and rid yourself of this childish crap you learned by rote at Babble School. There is no "objective standard" out there, despite your NEED to think there might be one, (as without it, you suffer from "uncertainty anxiety"-ie you have low ambiguity tolerance).

I don't think the crowd that imagines the morality is subjective, a matter of decorative frills, are the adults in the audience. I don't think folks are inclined to imagine the moral perspectives of folks like Rev. King, Desmond Tutu, etc.. are childish.

What you *think* is entirely irrelevant. Your ad hom about being "adult" is not only a fallacy, but also unsupported and irrelevant. Actually that IS precisely the POINT. Even YOU need to "think" about what the "objective standard" even is in any given situation, and you have (rightly or wrongly) LEARNED what you think it is. There is nothing "objective" about that. Even religious hospitals have Ethics Committees, as ethics need to be THOUGHT OUT, depending on the situation. No one said anything about "decorative frills". Nice try at deflection and evasion. They DO teach that at Bible College, don't they. Dr. King was a womanizer. Is that "objectively moral" ? Post the quote where he says morality is "objective". You have posted NOTHING by Desmond Tutu that demonstrates this Episcopalian bishop said there was an "objective morality". In fact his church community needs to argue constantly about what is and what is not moral.

You're not doing very well here, Tommy Boy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: