Mr. Walker and The Dark Phoenix: The Emotional Factor
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26-06-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: Mr. Walker and The Dark Phoenix: The Emotional Factor
(26-06-2014 12:18 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 05:00 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Attempting to show a belief to be false by appealing to how it originated is to commit the genetic fallacy.

This is not an attempt to show your beliefs are false. This is a discussion concerning the emotional component of belief. The belief itself can stand and be criticized on its own merits.

...Can't say I didn't tell you so, Jermy....


Quote:
(25-06-2014 05:00 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Christians may believe in God for any number of reasons, fear, love, adoration, some fulfillment of emotional need.

This is the core of what I mean to criticize. If the truth is really the goal, emotions and emotional needs are not an acceptable justification for belief without actual evidence. They make it incredibly difficult for people to throw off bad ideas, because of their emotional attachment to them.

BINGO.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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26-06-2014, 12:55 AM
RE: Mr. Walker and The Dark Phoenix: The Emotional Factor
(26-06-2014 12:24 AM)pablo628 Wrote:  Dark Phoenix, sorry for the thread derail back there. Blush

Oh, and I should say, I concur. BlushThumbsup

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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26-06-2014, 04:14 AM
RE: Mr. Walker and The Dark Phoenix: The Emotional Factor
(25-06-2014 08:17 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 08:11 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Anything that you do not have a good defense or answer for you throw out the fallacy flag. Come on dude, you are not stupid so just be honest and read again what you just posted. It makes no sense in regard to what the OP was about. You just want it to be true so god damned bad that you will not be honest as to why people are drawn to religion.

Fallacies are fallacies. Then only remedy for them is to correct the error in reasoning and reformulate the argument.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic


This genetic fallacy avoids the argument by shifting focus onto something's or someone's origins. It's similar to an ad hominem fallacy in that it leverages existing negative perceptions to make someone's argument look bad, without actually presenting a case for why the argument itself lacks merit.

So the genetic fallacy is aimed at showing that Christian's beliefs are false by appealing to how some people allegedly came to be believers in Christ which is simply irrelevant to whether or not the belief itself is true.

I may have been peeing in my pants out of sheer fear and terror at the prospect of an eternal hell when I became a Christian. This does not mean that my belief is false. It does not mean my belief is true. It means I was peeing in my pants out of sheer fear and terror at the prospect of an eternal hell when I became a Christian.

Hypothetically speaking of course.

So, instead of addressing the conclusion in DP's analysis of your stated belief origins, you have decided to call Genetic fallacy.
Methinks I see an Argument from fallacy.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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26-06-2014, 06:39 AM
RE: Mr. Walker and The Dark Phoenix: The Emotional Factor
Jeremy Wrote:This is how the process began. My mind did not change until I began entertaining the idea that God might actually exist.

This is sort of what happened to be (except in the opposite direction). When I was in college, I knew I wasn't willing to entertain any notion that would involve God not existing, so I was close-minded to any dissenting point of view before I even heard it. It wasn't until I was willing to consider that I'd been wrong that I was able to actually evaluate my previous beliefs.


Jeremy Wrote:I studied the theories of physicists for a while but I noticed they would always say things like "maybe" or "it is possible that" or "if" or "it seems". They never really seemed "sure" of the theories they talked about.

This is true, and I'd say that's a good thing. We don't want scientists making things up to convince themselves they're right, so they should admit when they've reached the limits of their understanding.

That being said, it seems important to you that you know you're right. If it bothers you that the scientists didn't know everything, why choose Christianity? While I know a lot of Christians that act like they're sure of their beliefs, if you talk to them long enough, they'll throw their hands up in the air and invoke phrases like "mysterious ways", "plan that we can't understand", and "who are you to question an infinite being?". So, if it bothered you that scientists never seemed "sure" of the theories they talked about... I really can't see why religion would be the next logical leap.


Jeremy Wrote:My mind changed when I became convicted of the things I had done in my life and the way I had been living. I became convinced that the way I was living and thinking was not in accordance with truth and it was at this point that I became willing to abandon the way I was living, my views, and even my life so that I could obtain the truth. Only after my will became free was I able to choose to act on what I had already known about what Christ had taught.

This sounds like confirmation bias.


Jeremy Wrote:So there was no argument or evidence that caused me to change my mind. I went from being an atheist to a Christian after my desires changed. When my desires changed, I simply acted on what I already knew and followed Christ's instructions and received what He promised.

Before knowing Christ, I had experienced and obtained all that I thought would fulfill me, and found myself paradoxically more unfulfilled than ever before. This drove me to search for truth for I determined that having truth would make it possible for me to know if there was that which could truly fulfill me or if I was destined to meander through life seeking fulfillment in mirages and illusions that could never really fulfill.

This sounds like some combination of wishful thinking and an argument from adverse consequences.


Take home message:
You're Christian because you're bothered that scientists don't have all the answers, you're not bothered that Christians don't have all the answers (for unstated reasons), and you're just happier believing it because it's what you want to believe.
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