Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
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27-06-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(27-06-2015 02:31 PM)Worom Wrote:  
(27-06-2015 01:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Don't go down that rabbit hole, while it is entertaining to watch his steadfast refusal to open his eyes to facts laid before him, while insisting his opinion overrides empirical evidence to the contrary, it is a time suck that has no end..he actually believes mark, matthew, luke and john wrote the synoptic gospels, and that people who wrote of jesus actually knew him, both positions are ludicrous given known facts.

It is rather entertaining, the only reason I opened the thread he kept asking for is everytime I step out to research his arguments I learn more and more and it makes his arguments and the arguments for religion seem more and more ridiculous than those I had already learned from my deconversion process a few months ago.

Smile

Ask him why I made this caricature of him months ago hehe

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"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-06-2015, 03:04 PM
Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
Now that a debate has moved, can this go back to being a thread about being happier being atheist?
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27-06-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
You know, the best part about being an atheist is I don't have to think about that crap anymore if I don't want to. Sadly, it's hard to walk away from trying to reach them... I think we see all the potential legions of the Brainwashed, and somehow feel obligated to defend reality from them.

Admittedly, it's hard to stop when so much anti-scientific horse-hockey is being slung on my head and all over my culture by the effects of Christians who think that evolution isn't real when a reasonable (small, but measurable, I would say) percent of the top evolutionary biologists are Christians. By some estimates I saw a decade ago, if I recall them correctly, it was approximately one in three.

How anyone can read the genetic information that we know, we know is the way it works, then launch off into some "well if God didn't do it, then you have to come up with a God-Mechanism for Creation billions of years ago and make it function on a lab-table in Nantucket, or I won't believe any of the rest of it!", I will never know.

It's not just ignorant or dishonest, it borders on the pathological. It's right there in front of you. My soon-to-be-9-year-old son has a decent grasp of how genes and gene pools (population genetics) work, though he's still fuzzy on the math. Heh. But seriously, can someone explain to me what it is about:

Gene Pool Diversity = all the possible DNA-sets that make up the members of a given species.

Two factors add to diversity and broaden the pool:
+Random Mutation adds new information to that available pool and produces new genotypes.
+Sexual Recombination rearranges the information in ways that may produce new phenotypes
.
Two factors remove diversity and shape/narrow the pool:
-Genetic Flow/Drift eliminates certain genes from the pool by random chance, and/or fixes them to 100%.
-Natural Selection eliminates phenotypes made by genes which do not survive well in the wild.

Every generation the population cannot be exactly the same as the one before. Over time, the pool may split off to form a non-mixing-with-home pool elsewhere from the main pool. Unless all factors are 100% the same as the home pool and stay that way, the differential pressure on the groups will shape them into different populations. (Not the only means by which speciation may occur, but the easiest to explain, here.)

Seriously, my kid gets it! Why can't grown men? Is it that they're told not to, and the brain shuts off before absorbing genetics/biology info? Are they afraid? Did their minds break when they screamed THE BAND at the back of the church, and ran to the altar as the gospel music crescendoed? Why are they even arguing over astrophysics and cosmology, or the physics of time or cellular biology with us, when they cannot even understand how genetic inheritance works?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-06-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
Really tired now. Stayed up half of last night helping an old friend not commit suicide after finding out he has HIV, a few months ago. Slept 3 hrs last night, total. It's 7PM and time for bed for me, I think. Sad

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-06-2015, 07:07 PM
Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
Dude that sucks for your friend but awesome that you are willing to do that. Atheism wins! Smile

**Crickets** -- God
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27-06-2015, 07:23 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(27-06-2015 01:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Don't go down that rabbit hole, while it is entertaining to watch his steadfast refusal to open his eyes to facts laid before him, while insisting his opinion overrides empirical evidence to the contrary, it is a time suck that has no end..he actually believes mark, matthew, luke and john wrote the synoptic gospels, and that people who wrote of jesus actually knew him, both positions are ludicrous given known facts.

Aww, don't discourage him from participating, GWOG. He may actually do better than you did against me, not that that is saying much Laugh out load
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27-06-2015, 07:26 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(27-06-2015 02:31 PM)Worom Wrote:  It is rather entertaining, the only reason I opened the thread he kept asking for is everytime I step out to research his arguments I learn more and more and it makes his arguments and the arguments for religion seem more and more ridiculous than those I had already learned from my deconversion process a few months ago.

Whatever is gonna make you sleep good tonight Laugh out load
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27-06-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The minority view used to be that the world wasnt flat....argumentum ad populum isn't the litmus test for truth now is it my misguided friend?

I guess you missed out on the part where I said Carrier also kinda/sorta admitted that he lost.

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Read life of constantine, he forbid ALL other religions under threat of death, THAT is why it is the prevalent religion to this day..that banishing of all other beliefs put a huge brake to any other thoughts and led to the explosion of christianity.

I don't believe he did all of that to the EXTENT that you are talking, but the point is, even if he did..sure, it helped...but Christianity was already popping before then.

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Then thanks to Bishop Augustines work, and forgeries, it grew even further...read a bit...learn. I would endeavor to believe Dr Price knows a shit ton more than you about the Bible, the NT, and jesus. I have forgotten more than you have yet learned, but once again, you bask in the aura of your own ignorance.

Dude, Robert Price is the minority. But I guess you don't have any choice but to cling on to the very few people that share these left winged views of yours Laugh out load

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  1 Corin 15:8? lol. Yes, that is a great story isn't it? He magically appeared before exactly 500 "brethren" at once, then to james, then to all of the apostles, and then to himself, or so the story goes.....so desperate the effort to make his wild claims buyable....obvious since he was working so hard to make keep 'the dream alive" since his false prophet was nailed to a piece of wood. Isn't it intruiging that not ONE of those 500 "witnesses" wrote down this amazing event.....Need a refresh on jesus the false prophet?

Well, if we are to believe that it is based on only on the 11 followers of Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the vast Roman Empire, and now throughout the entire world...if we are to believe that Christianity spread that quick, and that fast based solely on 11 folks, I would say it would have taken 500 people to contribute to that spreading "cancer" Laugh out load

Sounds about right.

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.

Read, THINK, evolve COTW

Dude, you are all over the place. No matter how much you change the subject, defeat will follow you.
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27-06-2015, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 27-06-2015 09:16 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(27-06-2015 07:42 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The minority view used to be that the world wasnt flat....argumentum ad populum isn't the litmus test for truth now is it my misguided friend?

I guess you missed out on the part where I said Carrier also kinda/sorta admitted that he lost.

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Read life of constantine, he forbid ALL other religions under threat of death, THAT is why it is the prevalent religion to this day..that banishing of all other beliefs put a huge brake to any other thoughts and led to the explosion of christianity.

I don't believe he did all of that to the EXTENT that you are talking, but the point is, even if he did..sure, it helped...but Christianity was already popping before then.

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Then thanks to Bishop Augustines work, and forgeries, it grew even further...read a bit...learn. I would endeavor to believe Dr Price knows a shit ton more than you about the Bible, the NT, and jesus. I have forgotten more than you have yet learned, but once again, you bask in the aura of your own ignorance.

Dude, Robert Price is the minority. But I guess you don't have any choice but to cling on to the very few people that share these left winged views of yours Laugh out load

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  1 Corin 15:8? lol. Yes, that is a great story isn't it? He magically appeared before exactly 500 "brethren" at once, then to james, then to all of the apostles, and then to himself, or so the story goes.....so desperate the effort to make his wild claims buyable....obvious since he was working so hard to make keep 'the dream alive" since his false prophet was nailed to a piece of wood. Isn't it intruiging that not ONE of those 500 "witnesses" wrote down this amazing event.....Need a refresh on jesus the false prophet?

Well, if we are to believe that it is based on only on the 11 followers of Jesus that Christianity spread throughout the vast Roman Empire, and now throughout the entire world...if we are to believe that Christianity spread that quick, and that fast based solely on 11 folks, I would say it would have taken 500 people to contribute to that spreading "cancer" Laugh out load

Sounds about right.

(27-06-2015 01:56 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.

Read, THINK, evolve COTW

Dude, you are all over the place. No matter how much you change the subject, defeat will follow you.

and there you go folks, as usual, when cornered with facts he can not refute, he does the side shimmy while amusing us with verbal drivel. Lets say it again reeeeeeal slow for him, maybe he will read it this time...

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


Boom, never happened, they all died, he did not return before they all died, let alone in the last 2,000 years...case closed, yet ANOTHER of a long line of debunked "messiahs"...Romulus is still my favorite. Next...and with that single scripture, the entirety of Christianity is eviscerated.

*drops mike*

Flex

(27-06-2015 07:23 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(27-06-2015 01:58 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Don't go down that rabbit hole, while it is entertaining to watch his steadfast refusal to open his eyes to facts laid before him, while insisting his opinion overrides empirical evidence to the contrary, it is a time suck that has no end..he actually believes mark, matthew, luke and john wrote the synoptic gospels, and that people who wrote of jesus actually knew him, both positions are ludicrous given known facts.

Aww, don't discourage him from participating, GWOG. He may actually do better than you did against me, not that that is saying much Laugh out load

Buahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa you got spanked, and everyone witnessed it, in fact it is still there for all to reread and enjoy. You got dragged around the schoolyard by me, as usual, and beaten with the knowledge stick. You can tell yourself otherwise, but ANYONE reading our little debate can easily see I beat you like you stole something.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid734084

[Image: 2q9kqhw.jpg]

[Image: 2gw965u.jpg]

and for the coupe de grace......

[Image: 34oqy9z.jpg]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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28-06-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(27-06-2015 09:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  and there you go folks, as usual, when cornered with facts he can not refute, he does the side shimmy while amusing us with verbal drivel. Lets say it again reeeeeeal slow for him, maybe he will read it this time...

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Boom, never happened, they all died, he did not return before they all died, let alone in the last 2,000 years...case closed, yet ANOTHER of a long line of debunked "messiahs"

What is the kingdom though? If you assume that "kingdom" is used here in terms of Christ' second coming, then you will have this sort of problem. However, many have viewed this scripture to mean the Transfiguration, which took place six day after he said those words.

That would make sense, because in Matthew 16:28, Jesus is talking directly to his disciples, and during the Transfiguration only a few of them (Peter, James, and John) saw Jesus in his glory...so obviously the rest of the disciples didn't see it and tasted death, while Peter, James, and John didn't taste death before they saw it.

And btw, according to gotquestions.org, the greek word "kingdom" can be translated as "royal splendor" http://www.gotquestions.org/not-taste-death.html

And the Transfiguration was certainly Jesus' royal splendor.

(27-06-2015 09:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  *drops mike*

Ohhhh, the famous Chris Rock dropping of the mic, eh? The difference is, when Chris Rock does it, it is after putting on a great show...when you do it, it is....blah Laugh out load

And the Transfiguration was certainly Jesus' royal splendor.

(27-06-2015 09:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Buahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa you got spanked, and everyone witnessed it, in fact it is still there for all to reread and enjoy. You got dragged around the schoolyard by me, as usual, and beaten with the knowledge stick. You can tell yourself otherwise, but ANYONE reading our little debate can easily see I beat you like you stole something.

Laugh out load
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