Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
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28-06-2015, 05:33 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
Self-styled apologists do intrigue me.

They must know they are performing acrobatics to force the data to fit their preferred model.

The question is, why do they afford themselves the luxury of thinking that this is acceptable methodology?

Huh

Further, given that more and more people are catching on to the effectiveness of the reverse methodology (of using data to modify the model), why do they think their approach is going to be convincing?

Is it through innocent ignorance? Or is it deliberate guile targeting the gullible for profit?

Or are there cases of both?

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28-06-2015, 06:17 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(28-06-2015 05:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Self-styled apologists do intrigue me.

They must know they are performing acrobatics to force the data to fit their preferred model.

The question is, why do they afford themselves the luxury of thinking that this is acceptable methodology?

Huh

Further, given that more and more people are catching on to the effectiveness of the reverse methodology (of using data to modify the model), why do they think their approach is going to be convincing?

Is it through innocent ignorance? Or is it deliberate guile targeting the gullible for profit?

Or are there cases of both?

Delusion. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-06-2015, 04:51 AM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2015 06:23 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(28-06-2015 05:24 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(27-06-2015 09:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  and there you go folks, as usual, when cornered with facts he can not refute, he does the side shimmy while amusing us with verbal drivel. Lets say it again reeeeeeal slow for him, maybe he will read it this time...

Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Boom, never happened, they all died, he did not return before they all died, let alone in the last 2,000 years...case closed, yet ANOTHER of a long line of debunked "messiahs"

What is the kingdom though? If you assume that "kingdom" is used here in terms of Christ' second coming, then you will have this sort of problem. However, many have viewed this scripture to mean the Transfiguration, which took place six day after he said those words.

That would make sense, because in Matthew 16:28, Jesus is talking directly to his disciples, and during the Transfiguration only a few of them (Peter, James, and John) saw Jesus in his glory...so obviously the rest of the disciples didn't see it and tasted death, while Peter, James, and John didn't taste death before they saw it.

And btw, according to gotquestions.org, the greek word "kingdom" can be translated as "royal splendor" http://www.gotquestions.org/not-taste-death.html

And the Transfiguration was certainly Jesus' royal splendor.

(27-06-2015 09:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  *drops mike*

Ohhhh, the famous Chris Rock dropping of the mic, eh? The difference is, when Chris Rock does it, it is after putting on a great show...when you do it, it is....blah Laugh out load

And the Transfiguration was certainly Jesus' royal splendor.

(27-06-2015 09:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Buahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa you got spanked, and everyone witnessed it, in fact it is still there for all to reread and enjoy. You got dragged around the schoolyard by me, as usual, and beaten with the knowledge stick. You can tell yourself otherwise, but ANYONE reading our little debate can easily see I beat you like you stole something.

Laugh out load

It always amuses me how apologists refuse to acknowledge the very scriptures they insist are true.....you can wave your fingers in front of your face while stomping your feet to hide the doubt wiggling in the back of your brain all you want....but the scripture says what the scripture says....and with that fact, disproves its own validity. I have heard so many laughable stuttering explanations of that scripture..."oh no no no it means THIS" lol. Come on now COTW, even though you are clearly delusional in your beliefs, you are at least somewhat intelligent...reread what you wrote to explain away the scripture...the hollowness of your own words should come through as loud and clear to you, as they did to us all.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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29-06-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(29-06-2015 04:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It always amuses me how apologists refuse to acknowledge the very scriptures they insist are true.....you can wave your fingers in front of your face while stomping your feet to hide the doubt wiggling in the back of your brain all you want....but the scripture says what the scripture says....and with that fact, disproves its own validity. I have heard so many laughable stuttering explanations of that scripture..."oh no no no it means THIS" lol. Come on now COTW, even though you are clearly delusional in your beliefs, you are at least somewhat intelligent...reread what you wrote to explain away the scripture...the hollowness of your own words should come through as loud and clear to you, as they did to us all.

Hey, my job as a Christian apologist is to offer a rational responses...give logical/reasonable/plausible responses to skeptiscism, and that is what I've done Big Grin

That is my job...and your job, as an unbelieving skeptic, is to just comb through the Bible, hoping that you will find something that will fuel your unbelief. Hoping to find one of those "gotcha" moments where you can walk away with that sense of "I've done my part for the day".

I know how it is. There is a war going on right now, a spiritual war...between guys like me, and guys like you. And since there IS a war, I am proud to be a lowly foot soldier in God's apologetic army.

Leave it up to guys like me to do the dirty work, oh Sovereign God Thumbsup
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29-06-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(29-06-2015 03:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I know how it is. There is a war going on right now, a spiritual war...between guys like me, and guys like you. And since there IS a war, I am proud to be a lowly foot soldier in God's apologetic army.

More like cannon fodder. The fight is not fair to you. You are ill-equipped.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-07-2015, 02:03 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(29-06-2015 03:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Hey, my job as a Christian apologist is to offer a rational responses...give logical/reasonable/plausible responses to skeptiscism, and that is what I've done Big Grin

That is my job...and your job, as an unbelieving skeptic, is to just comb through the Bible, hoping that you will find something that will fuel your unbelief. Hoping to find one of those "gotcha" moments where you can walk away with that sense of "I've done my part for the day".

I know how it is. There is a war going on right now, a spiritual war...between guys like me, and guys like you. And since there IS a war, I am proud to be a lowly foot soldier in God's apologetic army.

Leave it up to guys like me to do the dirty work, oh Sovereign God Thumbsup

Wow... I stepped away from this thread for a bit. Came back to find this.

What an asshole.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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01-07-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(01-07-2015 02:03 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Wow... I stepped away from this thread for a bit. Came back to find this.

What an asshole.
But he's a soldier so you'd be better be careful!
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01-07-2015, 04:39 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2015 06:06 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(29-06-2015 03:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-06-2015 04:51 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It always amuses me how apologists refuse to acknowledge the very scriptures they insist are true.....you can wave your fingers in front of your face while stomping your feet to hide the doubt wiggling in the back of your brain all you want....but the scripture says what the scripture says....and with that fact, disproves its own validity. I have heard so many laughable stuttering explanations of that scripture..."oh no no no it means THIS" lol. Come on now COTW, even though you are clearly delusional in your beliefs, you are at least somewhat intelligent...reread what you wrote to explain away the scripture...the hollowness of your own words should come through as loud and clear to you, as they did to us all.

Hey, my job as a Christian apologist is to offer a rational responses...give logical/reasonable/plausible responses to skeptiscism, and that is what I've done Big Grin

That is my job...and your job, as an unbelieving skeptic, is to just comb through the Bible, hoping that you will find something that will fuel your unbelief. Hoping to find one of those "gotcha" moments where you can walk away with that sense of "I've done my part for the day".

I know how it is. There is a war going on right now, a spiritual war...between guys like me, and guys like you. And since there IS a war, I am proud to be a lowly foot soldier in God's apologetic army.

Leave it up to guys like me to do the dirty work, oh Sovereign God Thumbsup

You made a RATIONAL response? Citation please Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Again, take some classes in theology, you will be surprised by what you learn.....yup, biblical scholars admit EVERYTHING I have posted, but no, mr johnson your friendly neighborhood kool aid server doesnt mention those inconvenient facts because it might "shake up the faith" Yes fact

To me religion is yet another form of philosophy as it is centered around a transcendental, faith required belief system in the unseen and unproven. However, in regards to religious belief and morals it gets very interesting. “The Catholic church has always taught faith must be the source of how its members act, both in their personal lives and out in the world.” (Stewart 283)

Contrary to popular belief, the correlation of religious belief and morality do not go the way you would surmise. There is a direct correlation between religious belief and bad morals/crime, not the opposite. The well-known passage from Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, "If God is dead, all is permitted," suggests that non-believers would not hold moral lives without the possibility of punishment by a God. This is an ignorant, and uneducated view when you consider the facts.

Phil Zuckerman, associate professor of sociology at Pitzer College in California, in his article, "Is Faith Good For Us" states the following: "A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute."

A study by Gregory S. Paul, entitled "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look," was done and the study's conclusion was that there was an inverse relationship between religion and poor societal health rates. What that means is that the higher the level of religious belief in a country, the lower the level of societal health (more violent crimes, suicides, teen pregnancies, etc.).

When we look at US prison population, the largest religiosity group are Christians at about 70%, even though they represent about 55% of US population overall. The smallest religiosity group are non-religious at about .02%, even though they represent about 25% of US population overall. There is also a direct correlation between the decline in overall crime, and the decline in religiosity in America over the last 10 years. Coincidence?

So it seems that a plethora of evidence exists to show that not only do we not need religion in our lives to be good humans, but that having it in our lives can be counter-productive and unhealthy.

Work cited:
Stewart, Cynthia., The Catholic church: a brief popular history. Winona, Mn: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2008. Print.

look at you learning shit, I should start charging you for tutelage. Flex

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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01-07-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
Having been wrongly sent to prison and had nine years to wait while my appeals crawled up the ladder, I had plenty of time to observe the prison population, and found that to be exactly the case. I was quite vocal about my atheism, there, in large part because of the overwhelming numbers of people trying to "share the gospel/prayer" with me.

More to the point, I found that the more intently religious a person was, the more I should fear them. Almost without fail, the level of "Bible thumping" correlated directly with the likelihood that they were, in some way, the most predatory and dangerous of the inmate population. Anyone visibly seen carrying their Bible around could be almost guaranteed to be a child molester or rapist. I am not saying this to belittle Christianity; I was in fact surprised to find that this was the case.

There are, of course, exceptions... but I know that in all my time down, I met less than twenty atheists, despite all my declarations to that effect, which should have (and did) pull others to me to admit they were fellow heathens. In one facility where we had four of us, total, we attempted to form a "Call-Out", a meeting group, and were called into the office and threatened by the prison chaplain, security head, and two other staff (who had just built a top-shelf, marble-walled, multi-million-dollar chapel on the facility and garnered mentions in numerous religious newspapers they then distributed in the dayrooms, etc) with classification as a "Security Threat Group" (read: prison gang) and sent to the Hole permanently, if we attempted to hold such meetings, and told in no uncertain terms that we would never be given permission to meet, even though the tables in the gymnasium were chock-full of unsanctioned Bible study groups, the very tables at which we proposed to meet.

That's how religious that environment is. (I did get the Atheists United and Freedom From Religious Foundations to write letters to the prison, complaining of this treatment, but in the end the prison's response was, quite literally, "sue us.")

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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01-07-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Much Happier now that I'm an Atheist
(01-07-2015 05:49 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Having been wrongly sent to prison and had nine years to wait while my appeals crawled up the ladder, I had plenty of time to observe the prison population, and found that to be exactly the case. I was quite vocal about my atheism, there, in large part because of the overwhelming numbers of people trying to "share the gospel/prayer" with me.

More to the point, I found that the more intently religious a person was, the more I should fear them. Almost without fail, the level of "Bible thumping" correlated directly with the likelihood that they were, in some way, the most predatory and dangerous of the inmate population. Anyone visibly seen carrying their Bible around could be almost guaranteed to be a child molester or rapist. I am not saying this to belittle Christianity; I was in fact surprised to find that this was the case.

There are, of course, exceptions... but I know that in all my time down, I met less than twenty atheists, despite all my declarations to that effect, which should have (and did) pull others to me to admit they were fellow heathens. In one facility where we had four of us, total, we attempted to form a "Call-Out", a meeting group, and were called into the office and threatened by the prison chaplain, security head, and two other staff (who had just built a top-shelf, marble-walled, multi-million-dollar chapel on the facility and garnered mentions in numerous religious newspapers they then distributed in the dayrooms, etc) with classification as a "Security Threat Group" (read: prison gang) and sent to the Hole permanently, if we attempted to hold such meetings, and told in no uncertain terms that we would never be given permission to meet, even though the tables in the gymnasium were chock-full of unsanctioned Bible study groups, the very tables at which we proposed to meet.

That's how religious that environment is. (I did get the Atheists United and Freedom From Religious Foundations to write letters to the prison, complaining of this treatment, but in the end the prison's response was, quite literally, "sue us.")


Holy shit. No pun intended.

Man, it makes me so angry you had to go through all that shit. For what? Being innocent!!!

My blood is boiling. Angry

So glad you joined this forum where other decent folk hang out.

My sincere and utmost respects. Dale Cleary.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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