Musings of a Deconverting Mind
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26-07-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 01:39 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 06:50 AM)LostLocke Wrote:  Immoral. You're not actually doing anything except killing an animal.
Actually you can feed many hungry people and save their lives by killing an animal.
It is moral in my opinion to save human lives. But some people see life of animals more important then life of humans.
Feeding hungry people was not part of your question.
You only asked about killing an animal for sins.

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26-07-2015, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2015 04:54 PM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 04:39 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Fuck me, did we just leap to Minority Report?

IKR? I love the insane reply. So apparently, god hates slavery so much he killed a bunch of babies who apparently were going to trade slaves in the future. This god then seems to forget this and tell his chosen people that slavery is OK and later a dude named Hitler nearly wipes them all out. Apparently the future slave traders of Egypt (we'll call them Alla's kids) were worse than Hitler.

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26-07-2015, 04:53 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2015 04:57 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
@Alla

Wow! some people upset with those who believe in God who kills babies(Egyptians) to save other babies(Israelites).
but they are not upset with those who kill babies with organs and gender as it is some kind of tumor. Wow!
By the way I am not judging you for your opinion.

I think you do and if not, maybe you should. Judging people isn't a bad thing. You are judging people who have abortion calling them despicable, irresponsible and the doctors who help them murderers. Note that I didn't mention at what point or under which circomstances it would be wrong to conduct an abortion. Here are a few points you might like to consider on the subject of God's morality and dead babies.

1) God is a lot more powerful an knowledgeble than any human. Thus he must be judge on much higher standards of morality to reflect that truth. We don't judge children like teens or teens like adults, sane people with insane ones, etc.

2) Embryo, Fetus and babies aren't the same thing. The first two can be aborted without it being immoral while the last one would be because of its high enough state of physical and mental developpement. The first two can be considered in a pre-human state or even nothing more than an handfull of cells. It takes up to 6 months for a fetus to develope a fonctionning heart and the capacity to survive albeit with difficulties outside of his mothers womb. For many people it's at this point that an abortion becomes immoral because the fetus has all the necessary traits of human and can survive on his own (so to speak).

3) Killing babies doesn't save other babies from slavery. Babies aren't slavers. All Egyptians weren't slavers or slave owners. Only an extreme minority was because slaves were rare in Egyptian culture. Convincing slavers to abandon slavery by using sound arguments does save babies (and adults) from slavery and doesn't require any form of pain.

4) Forcing an abortion when there is no threat to a women life is immoral because it can seriously hurt her psychologically. God didn't ask permission to cause abortion or miscarriage making him immoral.

5) Letting precious resources go to waste, in that case not harvesting healthy organs of a dead body, could be considered wrong for it prevents other people surviving which in the case of baby organs allow other babies to live.
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26-07-2015, 05:19 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 03:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 02:22 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Really??

I guess you never learned proper fucking exegesis. jahoobla killed the children because he was having a hissy fit over the pharoah not letting the Israelites go (by the way there is absolutely zero evidence that the jews were ever in Egypt. None)
1) I don't care about zero evidence. Zero evidence means nothing to me.

Then you are willfully ignorant. Drinking Beverage

Quote:2)So, you say that God killed babies because He had a hissy fit over the pharaoh not letting the Israelites go.
How about this for the reason:
Pharaoh and Egyptians treated Israelites and their children and babies badly. They(Israelites) were slaves. Slavery is evil.
Is it moral to kill babies who will become slave traders like their fathers in order to save babies who were already slaves?

There is no evidence that the Israelites were ever slaves in Egypt. None.

The Bible doesn't say anywhere that slavery is evil.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-07-2015, 07:32 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 03:03 PM)Alla Wrote:  1) I don't care about zero evidence. Zero evidence means nothing to me.
Then you are willfully ignorant. Drinking Beverage
OK I am wilfully ignorant.
Zero evidence proves nothing. So what that there is no evidence that Israelites were in Egypt?
(26-07-2015 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence that the Israelites were ever slaves in Egypt. None.
It doesn't mean they were not slaves. I believe testimony of the Prophets of God.
(26-07-2015 05:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Bible doesn't say anywhere that slavery is evil.
It doesn't have to say this. But when God of the Bible is not on someone's side He let enemy to take this person/people captives and slaves. And when God let them to become slaves it means they deserve bad things happen to them. Bad things = evil.

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26-07-2015, 07:48 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
@Alla

«It doesn't have to say this. But when God of the Bible is not on someone's side He let enemy to take this person/people captives and slaves. And when God let them to become slaves it means they deserve bad things happen to them. Bad things = evil.»

Thus God is an evil incompetent tyrant who cannot convince people because, has Moses demonstrated, he is prone to fall for fallacious arguments, cannot teach or use his massive powers in a more constructive fashion. This last sentence seems like the excuses of a beaten wife/husband/child more than that of a sound, logical, impartial judge of character.
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26-07-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
I agree that you can not prove a negative but the Bible makes claims about the nature of the universe,I.e., that it was created by an act of conscious will, which can be proven to be false. So there is no rational reason to consider any claim it makes about Jesus to be true.

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26-07-2015, 08:01 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 04:53 PM)epronovost Wrote:  I think you do and if not, maybe you should. Judging people isn't a bad thing.
You are judging people who have abortion calling them despicable, irresponsible and the doctors who help them murderers.
I don't judge these people. I judge their actions. Mothers are running away from responsibility. Doctors are killing. What is his name? Doctor Gaznel?
I am not talking about victims of rape or if it is threatening women's life. This is not running from the responsibilities.
And I didn't call them despicable. I am not judging their conscience. I am not God to do so.
(26-07-2015 04:53 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Note that I didn't mention at what point or under which circomstances it would be wrong to conduct an abortion. Here are a few points you might like to consider on the subject of God's morality and dead babies.
1) God is a lot more powerful an knowledgeble than any human. Thus he must be judge on much higher standards of morality to reflect that truth. We don't judge children like teens or teens like adults, sane people with insane ones, etc.
I agree that is why we can not judge God of the Bible as barbarian and immoral. He is more knowledgeable then we are.
(26-07-2015 04:53 PM)epronovost Wrote:  2) Embryo, Fetus and babies aren't the same thing. The first two can be aborted without it being immoral while the last one would be because of its high enough state of physical and mental developement.
Infant can also die. It is one thing he dies and another thing I kill him/her.
(26-07-2015 04:53 PM)epronovost Wrote:  The first two can be considered in a pre-human state or even nothing more than an handfull of cells. It takes up to 6 months for a fetus to develope a fonctionning heart and the capacity to survive albeit with difficulties outside of his mothers womb. For many people it's at this point that an abortion becomes immoral because the fetus has all the necessary traits of human and can survive on his own (so to speak).
I don't know if it is OK to kill future human being who in a form of a handful of cells. But when I see a baby (ultrasound) that moves I do not believe it is right thing to do to kill him/her just because I am not ready to take care of my responsibility. Baby in the womb may feel pain.
(26-07-2015 04:53 PM)epronovost Wrote:  4) Forcing an abortion when there is no threat to a women life is immoral because it can seriously hurt her psychologically. God didn't ask permission to cause abortion or miscarriage making him immoral.
If God causes abortion or miscarriage it is because He has some good intent. He has more knowledge than we do. It is OK to do abortion when there is good intent. To save women's life or to save her from more victimization.
(26-07-2015 04:53 PM)epronovost Wrote:  5) Letting precious resources go to waste, in that case not harvesting healthy organs of a dead body, could be considered wrong for it prevents other people surviving which in the case of baby organs allow other babies to live.
I don't mind to help others by harvesting organs of dead bodies. But we don't have to kill them(babies) first.

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26-07-2015, 08:07 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 07:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Alla

«It doesn't have to say this. But when God of the Bible is not on someone's side He let enemy to take this person/people captives and slaves. And when God let them to become slaves it means they deserve bad things happen to them. Bad things = evil.»

Thus God is an evil incompetent tyrant who cannot convince people because, has Moses demonstrated, he is prone to fall for fallacious arguments, cannot teach or use his massive powers in a more constructive fashion. This last sentence seems like the excuses of a beaten wife/husband/child more than that of a sound, logical, impartial judge of character.
God gives us knowledge and moral agency. Then we govern ourselves. If God had to convince us it would ruin His whole plan.
So, sin brings lots of bad/evil things upon our heads. Slavery is one of them.
But when good people become/forced to become slaves it is because trials are part of our lives. We are here to learn not only good but evil also. One of the evil things is slavery.

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26-07-2015, 08:12 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
The believers create the issue and contradiction of morality and their god by claiming that he is "all loving".

Pushing them on the atrocities in the bible you often get the "mysterious ways/you can't know the mind of god" when the questions are tough, but then daily they claim to know what god wants in many aspects.
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