Musings of a Deconverting Mind
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26-07-2015, 10:58 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 09:26 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 07:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  OK I am wilfully ignorant.
Zero evidence proves nothing. So what that there is no evidence that Israelites were in Egypt?

So what that there's no evidence? It tells us that there is no reason to believe the fables, that's what.

But points for admitting that you are willfully ignorant.

(26-07-2015 07:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  It doesn't mean they were not slaves. I believe testimony of the Prophets of God.

Sooo... The fact that there is no evidence whatsoever than an entire 'race' numbering approximately 1 million people, mind,(men numbering 600,000 men, the rest being uncounted women and children; this estimate was gained from the number given at the time of the supposed exodus, in Exodus 12:37-38) was enslaved in Egypt for any period of time means... What do you think, exactly?

As a side-note: there is no evidence that you don't murder babies with a lawnmower you named Fred, does that mean we can reasonably assume that you do indeed murder babies with the aid of Fred the Lawnmower?

(26-07-2015 07:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  It doesn't have to say this. But when God of the Bible is not on someone's side He let enemy to take this person/people captives and slaves. And when God let them to become slaves it means they deserve bad things happen to them. Bad things = evil.

Okay, let's run with this logic, shall we?
God knows slavery is wrong. But on multiple occasions, he told the Jews to take slaves. Even if we assume without reason that these people were 'evil', entire nations guilty of some hitherto unspoken crime, god is the one enslaving them to the Jews (or the Jews to others, as the case may be), no?
If god knows slavery is bad, but continues to order and enforce it, doesn't that make him at least as evil, seeing as that he continues to both do and demand evil be done despite supposedly knowing it to be evil? Even if the people all were somehow 'deserving of (an evil) punishment', how does it stop it from being an evil deed?

And for the record, I've seen 5-year olds more eloquent and proficient in the language than you are. Just putting it out there.
If God let evil people to become slaves of their enemies He does Justice.
Evil people do not deserve freedom.
Evil people deserve punishment.
But He never told to enslave good people.

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26-07-2015, 10:58 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 07:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe testimony of the Prophets of God.

That's nice. Not everyone has such a low bar, thought. Surely your deity, alleged to be omnipotent, could arrange evidence to convince the skeptics whom he himself made.

Or, your god's a sham. G'night, Irene.
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26-07-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 07:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  I believe testimony of the Prophets of God.
That's nice. Not everyone has such a low bar, thought.
I agree, not everyone can have high bar thought as yours, you bully.
(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Surely your deity, alleged to be omnipotent, could arrange evidence to convince the skeptics whom he himself made.
He could but it will destroy His plan.
(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Or, your god's a sham. G'night, Irene.
Good night, Irene

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26-07-2015, 11:25 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2015 09:35 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 11:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  That's nice. Not everyone has such a low bar, thought.
I agree, not everyone can have high bar thought as yours, you bully.

lol, disagreeing with you is being a "bully"? Damn, that must be a heavy victim-card you're waving around.

(26-07-2015 11:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Surely your deity, alleged to be omnipotent, could arrange evidence to convince the skeptics whom he himself made.
He could but it will destroy His plan.

And you, of course, are privy to said plan, right?

Let me get this straight -- your god has shared his plan with you, yet you're so nervous that any disagreement leads you to charge "bullying"? Certainly your god should be able to shield you from such mortal concerns as an Internet skeptic, so that you don't have to squeal victimization at the disagreement of a total stranger.

(26-07-2015 11:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Or, your god's a sham. G'night, Irene.
Good night, Irene

Golly, you're quite the interlocutor.

No, wait, you're not. Trai harder.
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26-07-2015, 11:35 PM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2015 11:46 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 10:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 09:26 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  And for the record, I've seen 5-year olds more eloquent and proficient in the language than you are. Just putting it out there.
I bet you speak my native languages (Ukranian and Russian)worse then I speak English.

Indisputably.

But then, I don't attempt to speak or write in either, nor make the pretense that I can, nor have I spent any time attempting to learn them.

(26-07-2015 10:52 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 09:37 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I'm sorry, but I have to contradict you here.

The question should be: "Do they shove their children in the oven set at 550F for all eternity for being made to fail?"

God doesn't do this.

The Adam and Eve fable begs to differ: a deity claimed to be omniscient created a species ignorant of all and set them a prohibition to not consume the fruit of a tree which would give them knowledge of good and evil, prior to their understanding that breaking the moratorium of fruit-eating would be bad. Due to his supposed omniscience he would have foreknowledge of his failure but chose to go ahead anyway, dooming humanity to a failure he designed and allowed.

Of course, the oven-hell simile breaks down, as by that point, Hell had not been invented yet and would not be so for at the very least another millennium, but as a demonstration of a capricious deity which sets his subjects to failure and forces upon them the consequences, it still functions.

Either that, your your deity is not all-knowing.

(26-07-2015 10:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 09:26 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  So what that there's no evidence? It tells us that there is no reason to believe the fables, that's what.

But points for admitting that you are willfully ignorant.


Sooo... The fact that there is no evidence whatsoever than an entire 'race' numbering approximately 1 million people, mind,(men numbering 600,000 men, the rest being uncounted women and children; this estimate was gained from the number given at the time of the supposed exodus, in Exodus 12:37-38) was enslaved in Egypt for any period of time means... What do you think, exactly?

As a side-note: there is no evidence that you don't murder babies with a lawnmower you named Fred, does that mean we can reasonably assume that you do indeed murder babies with the aid of Fred the Lawnmower?


Okay, let's run with this logic, shall we?
God knows slavery is wrong. But on multiple occasions, he told the Jews to take slaves. Even if we assume without reason that these people were 'evil', entire nations guilty of some hitherto unspoken crime, god is the one enslaving them to the Jews (or the Jews to others, as the case may be), no?
If god knows slavery is bad, but continues to order and enforce it, doesn't that make him at least as evil, seeing as that he continues to both do and demand evil be done despite supposedly knowing it to be evil? Even if the people all were somehow 'deserving of (an evil) punishment', how does it stop it from being an evil deed?

And for the record, I've seen 5-year olds more eloquent and proficient in the language than you are. Just putting it out there.

If God let evil people to become slaves of their enemies He does Justice.
Evil people do not deserve freedom.
Evil people deserve punishment.
But He never told to enslave good people.

A) God never said to only enslave 'evil people'; he said "You shall take your slaves from the nations around you", and they slaves may be taken from outsiders within the Jew's borders. There is no stipulation regarding where a person is or must be evil or not, nor is it said that they are.

B) God has the Jews enslaved on several occasions; does this mean they were all evil?

C) You never answered any of the questions I asked across the entire post, so go ahead and do that.

(26-07-2015 11:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  He could but it will destroy His plan.

Then your god is a poor planner, an impotent slave to his own designs, or both.

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26-07-2015, 11:50 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(26-07-2015 10:52 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(26-07-2015 09:37 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I'm sorry, but I have to contradict you here.

The question should be: "Do they shove their children in the oven set at 550F for all eternity for being made to fail?"
God doesn't do this.

Is that "lake of fire" allegorical, then?
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26-07-2015, 11:58 PM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
Typical believer is typical.
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27-07-2015, 02:23 AM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(25-07-2015 08:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(25-07-2015 08:18 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Please explain why you think it is moral for god to kill babies.
I didn't say I think this.
Not yet.


Not sure if I wanna live on this planet anymore...
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27-07-2015, 02:35 AM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
(27-07-2015 02:23 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  
(25-07-2015 08:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  I didn't say I think this.
Not yet.


Not sure if I wanna live on this planet anymore...

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The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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27-07-2015, 05:42 AM
RE: Musings of a Deconverting Mind
@Alla

Just a return on your first argument,

You have drawn a similarity between abortion by women and doctors (an evil act) and infanticide by God (a just act). Since we have demonstrated that abortion doesn't kill babies (absolutely 0 babies); abortion destroys an embryo in 92% of the cases, which means only a small pack of stem cells slightly smaller than a ping pong ball is destroyed, and in the rest of the 8% only a fetus with no completely formed organs the size of a tennis ball is destroyed; can we still equate that in a reasonable fashion to killing a babies? In that case shouldn't killing animals, plants and even bacteria be evil? They have the similar level of awareness and even superior capacity to be alive. What about God killing children? We can easily demonstrate with the story of the Plagues of Egypt, the adultery of David, The Original Sin, The destruction of Tyre (which was never destroyed ironically), the destruction of the Twin Cities, the massacre of the other inhabitant of Palestine, that God can and will kill innocent people if he sees fit.

This leads me to my second question. How do you know God has a plan and that he is just, good and merciful? Do you simply believe it because he said so? On what are you basing your judgement of God's character and do you think you could apply the same method to other deity, magical creature, fictional characters or even real people?
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