Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
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15-03-2017, 08:39 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(15-03-2017 06:10 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 05:57 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Except they will blame it on "activist judges" and hold the dumpster up as a hero for trying
Consider

I have no doubt whatsoever that Trump will continue to lie until he's blue in the face. Rainbow Vomit However, I assume most of his supporters are ordinary people who have been temporarily taken in by his bluster. They should come around slowly, as he continues to fail big. Hobo Hobo Hobo

You are far more optimistic than I am. I think some will start to see him for what he is but most of his supporters will double-down on the insanity.

I hope to be proven wrong.

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15-03-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(15-03-2017 08:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 06:10 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  I have no doubt whatsoever that Trump will continue to lie until he's blue in the face. Rainbow Vomit However, I assume most of his supporters are ordinary people who have been temporarily taken in by his bluster. They should come around slowly, as he continues to fail big. Hobo Hobo Hobo

You are far more optimistic than I am. I think some will start to see him for what he is but most of his supporters will double-down on the insanity.

I hope to be proven wrong.

I agree, it even has a term, the Backfire Effect. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/...re-effect/

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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15-03-2017, 11:03 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
And in more news today that would indicate Drumpf is in a bit of trouble, to put it mildly...


US President Donald Trump said on Wednesday that he based claims that former president Barack Obama had wiretapped Trump Tower on media reports, and remained confident that information emerging in the coming weeks would vindicate his so-far unsubstantiated charge...

"Let's see whether or not I prove it," Trump said. "I just don't choose to do it right now." Trump, speaking at length about the controversy for the first time, said his tweet alleging the former president was spying on him was based at least partially on media reports...

Trump maintained that information would soon be revealed that could prove him right, but would not explain what that information might be.

Melbourne AGE, 2:47PM, 16 March

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15-03-2017, 11:39 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(15-03-2017 11:03 PM)SYZ Wrote:  And in more news today that would indicate Drumpf is in a bit of trouble, to put it mildly...


US President Donald Trump said on Wednesday that he based claims that former president Barack Obama had wiretapped Trump Tower on media reports, and remained confident that information emerging in the coming weeks would vindicate his so-far unsubstantiated charge...

"Let's see whether or not I prove it," Trump said. "I just don't choose to do it right now." Trump, speaking at length about the controversy for the first time, said his tweet alleging the former president was spying on him was based at least partially on media reports...

Trump maintained that information would soon be revealed that could prove him right, but would not explain what that information might be.

Melbourne AGE, 2:47PM, 16 March

What a fucking loser. Sadly true believers will follow him to the bitter end. When you're that fucken dumb you wear it as a badge of pride.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-03-2017, 12:59 AM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2017 01:03 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(15-03-2017 05:57 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 05:50 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Americans are going to get sick of all that winning. Tongue

Except they will blame it on "activist judges" and hold the dumpster up as a hero for trying
Consider

Except that with version 2.0, they're probably right. While it will be legally challenged, the second attempt is on much better legal footing. There are exemptions for everyone who already have a legal right to enter the country, including all citizens and those already in possession of legitimate green cards and visas. Plus it is also not an immediate implementation. This effectively guts all of the 'due process' objections to the initial executive order.

Like it or not, the President does have this power, as a matter of law. While it might be tasteless, there is no Constitutional considerations for non-citizens; the Constitution simply does not apply to them. The original order ran afoul by violating the Constitution by infringing on the 'due process' right of people who had legitimate claim to enter the United States. This one does not, and will most likely stand up to legal challenge. The 9th Circuit basically told them in their opinion exactly what they needed to do to make it legal, and they did it.

But don't take my word for it, listen to Harvard law graduate Andrew Torrez.

Opening Arguments 051: The Grimm Reality About Transgender Bathrooms

First, we begin with an examination of the Trump administration’s revised Executive Order (sometimes called the “Muslim Ban”) restricting entry from now six Muslim-majority nations. As you may recall, we first addressed this issue back in Opening Arguments episode #43. Does this revised order comply with the law and solve the problems outlined by the 9th Circuit, or is it still “obviously unconstitutional,” as many news sources claim? You’ll know better than the New York Times soon enough!

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16-03-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(15-03-2017 05:49 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 05:46 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Way to go Hawaii Thumbsup

Federal judge in Hawaii freezes President Trump's new executive order


Federal judge blocks new Trump travel ban


And with American Healthcare Act looking dead in the waters.

Trump's presidency is looking impotent.

> It appears to me that Trump is trying to do to the Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.

Lets not forget, Hitler murdered 6million Jews and "desirables".
A travel ban is nowhere near Hitlers level and I don't believe Trump would ever be on Hitlers level. I don't like the guy, I don't agree with what he's doing or stands for but he's not Hitler.

Comparing Trumps travel ban to Hitlers holocaust belittles the holocaust when we should never forget how terrible it was. A travel ban is merely an inconvenience and discrimination at worst. A holocaust is 6 million people needlessly murdered. Completely different situations.
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16-03-2017, 01:37 AM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(16-03-2017 01:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 05:49 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > It appears to me that Trump is trying to do to the Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.

Lets not forget, Hitler murdered 6million Jews and "desirables".
A travel ban is nowhere near Hitlers level and I don't believe Trump would ever be on Hitlers level. I don't like the guy, I don't agree with what he's doing or stands for but he's not Hitler.

Comparing Trumps travel ban to Hitlers holocaust belittles the holocaust when we should never forget how terrible it was. A travel ban is merely an inconvenience and discrimination at worst. A holocaust is 6 million people needlessly murdered. Completely different situations.

Trumps deaths will be far more indirect. If their attempts to dismantle Obamacare and replace it with Paul Ryan's plan are successful, then they will be directly responsible for the deaths of plenty of American citizens as some 24 million will lose or be priced out of their coverage. Instead of the turning of a gas valve, the shutting of an oven door, or the pulling of a trigger; Trump will set in motion potentially millions of deaths with the movement of a pen. Of course, if you trace that causality back even father, it'll lead right to the many of the ballots of the people who will lose their coverage. An educated electorate we most certainly are not.

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16-03-2017, 02:09 AM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(16-03-2017 01:37 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 01:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Lets not forget, Hitler murdered 6million Jews and "desirables".
A travel ban is nowhere near Hitlers level and I don't believe Trump would ever be on Hitlers level. I don't like the guy, I don't agree with what he's doing or stands for but he's not Hitler.

Comparing Trumps travel ban to Hitlers holocaust belittles the holocaust when we should never forget how terrible it was. A travel ban is merely an inconvenience and discrimination at worst. A holocaust is 6 million people needlessly murdered. Completely different situations.

Trumps deaths will be far more indirect. If their attempts to dismantle Obamacare and replace it with Paul Ryan's plan are successful, then they will be directly responsible for the deaths of plenty of American citizens as some 24 million will lose or be priced out of their coverage. Instead of the turning of a gas valve, the shutting of an oven door, or the pulling of a trigger; Trump will set in motion potentially millions of deaths with the movement of a pen. Of course, if you trace that causality back even father, it'll lead right to the many of the ballots of the people who will lose their coverage. An educated electorate we most certainly are not.

Sure I agree with that. But I was referring to the point that what Trump is trying to do with Muslims is like what Hitler did to the Jews. Healthcare is a different issue.

But even than it's still not on the same level. Jews were forced out of their homes and rounded up. Forced into camps and forced or tricked into gas chambers.
Trump won on the grounds that he was gonna repeal Obamacare. People actively voted for that shit. Trumps not killing them, their own stupidity is killing them. Darwinism some would say. It is however unfortunate for those that will suffer who DIDN'T vote for him. Those people are defiantly the ones getting the worst deal because they didn't sign up for this shit.
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16-03-2017, 02:13 AM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(15-03-2017 05:49 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > It appears to me that Trump is trying to do to the Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.

As usual, I agree with Bob. Thumbsup

(15-03-2017 08:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 06:10 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  I have no doubt whatsoever that Trump will continue to lie until he's blue in the face. Rainbow Vomit However, I assume most of his supporters are ordinary people who have been temporarily taken in by his bluster. They should come around slowly, as he continues to fail big. Hobo Hobo Hobo

You are far more optimistic than I am. I think some will start to see him for what he is but most of his supporters will double-down on the insanity.

I hope to be proven wrong.

You and me both. Smile

(15-03-2017 08:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I agree, it even has a term, the Backfire Effect. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/...re-effect/

The correct term is Blowback. It is a CIA term. I have used it here many times whilst warning Americans before Trump was in the picture.

The response was usually the pig ignorant chant "USA USA USA!"

(16-03-2017 01:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Lets not forget, Hitler murdered 6 million Jews and "undesirables".

First, fixed that for ya. Wink

It should be remembered that Hitler's final solution was conceived during the 1940's. Undesirables were being removed from society much earlier. Communists, intellectuals, Jews etc were moved to camps. Kristallnacht was an overt example of what was to come.

Many ordinary Germans did not know what was actually taking place. For example, it is said that during his visit to receive the Diamonds to the Oak Leaves and Swords to the Knights Cross and he was in close proximity to the Nazi hierarchy, Hans Joachim Marseille returned to his unit in Africa a changed man.

It would appear this outstanding young man had "Heard reports" that were discomforting to say the least.

Never underestimate the cruelty of the human race. Nor the arrogance of certain nations. Need I remind you of America's history of slavery and conquest? Approximately 1000 international US bases. The largest military base on earth is American. And it's not in America.

IMHO America is the greatest threat to human survival in history.

I agree with Bob 100%. Thumbsup

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16-03-2017, 02:20 AM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(16-03-2017 01:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 05:49 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > It appears to me that Trump is trying to do to the Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.

Lets not forget, Hitler murdered 6million Jews and "desirables".
A travel ban is nowhere near Hitlers level and I don't believe Trump would ever be on Hitlers level. I don't like the guy, I don't agree with what he's doing or stands for but he's not Hitler.

Comparing Trumps travel ban to Hitlers holocaust belittles the holocaust when we should never forget how terrible it was. A travel ban is merely an inconvenience and discrimination at worst. A holocaust is 6 million people needlessly murdered. Completely different situations.

Um. I think his point is that Trump's rhetoric is eerily similar to Hitler's, and that it's not beyond the realm of possibility that as he stokes nationalistic fervour and white supremacist bullshit, he could trigger a genocide. I don't personally think he's either intending to do that or likely to get away with it if he tried, but his supporters might not be sad if that was a direction that he moved in. Hitler also started with small things like making Jews wear special signs, keeping track of businesses that employed Jews, general harassment and so forth. It doesn't *start* as a plan to kill 6 million Jews.

I think unfortunately it's not a negligible possibility that Trump could start a nuclear war or indeed, trigger a genocide. The thing is it's politically convenient for him to have scapegoats, this anti-Muslim bullshit covers a multitude of sins as far as his incompetence is concerned.

It's one thing if fears are being overblown, but I would say that it's worse to overlook this kind of thing as being not really so bad - that's where the rot starts.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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