Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
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18-03-2017, 01:26 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
abaris Wrote:That's based on what exactly?
None of the countries on the ban have provided a single active terrorist on US soil. Saudi Arabia on the other hand, not included in the ban, have provided more than a dozen on 9/11 alone.
They explained to American people why they chose those countries. They say that those countries(governments) can not vet their own people. I also know that neither you nor me nor judges know what president knows.
It is not up to me or to judges to decide what people and from what country have to be banned.
If we want to make this kind of judgment we have to run for office of president.
Let me know where I am wrong.
abaris Wrote:So, what's your point again?

My point is that you or liberal judges activists should become president of the Unites States first and than you and they(judges) can tell me that Trump and his people are wrong.
Let me know where I am wrong.

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18-03-2017, 01:30 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 01:26 PM)Alla Wrote:  They explained to American people why they chose those countries. They say that those countries(governments) can not vet their own people.

And what's your opinion, or do you take what they say at face value? Ever been to Iran? It's not paradise, of course, but to say they can't vet their people - if they said that - is just flat out stupid or geared at impressing the stupid.
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18-03-2017, 01:32 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 01:26 PM)Alla Wrote:  
abaris Wrote:That's based on what exactly?
None of the countries on the ban have provided a single active terrorist on US soil. Saudi Arabia on the other hand, not included in the ban, have provided more than a dozen on 9/11 alone.
They explained to American people why they chose those countries. They say that those countries(governments) can not vet their own people. I also know that neither you nor me nor judges know what president knows.
It is not up to me or to judges to decide what people and from what country have to be banned.
If we want to make this kind of judgment we have to run for office of president.
Let me know where I am wrong.
abaris Wrote:So, what's your point again?

My point is that you or liberal judges activists should become president of the Unites States first and than you and they(judges) can tell me that Trump and his people are wrong.
Let me know where I am wrong.

There's a disconnect between what the people think and whats actually real. The people in those countries aren't just vetted by their own country. That's just the first small step. They still have to be vetted by our immigration.

The president doesn't obviously know everything, he takes to twitter and repeats things he's "heard" he's the president he should be able to find out? The larger issue is why doesn't he know or is more aware of the [refugee] process?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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18-03-2017, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2017 01:40 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 01:26 PM)Alla Wrote:  My point is that you or liberal judges activists should become president of the Unites States first and than you and they(judges) can tell me that Trump and his people are wrong.
Let me know where I am wrong.

You are confusing the relationship between the executive and judicial branches in the USSR with that in the USA. Maybe Trump should become a judge first before he starts trying to interpret Constitutional Law. Or for that matter, him just reading the damn thing would be a start.

#sigh
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18-03-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 01:32 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The larger issue is why doesn't he know or is more aware of the [refugee] process?

Because he's beyond stupid. During the Merkel visit he told a German journalist that it was a Fox reporter having told him that GCHQ spied on him. He should ask him for detailed information.

So that's where he's getting his "intelligence" (both meanings of the word) from. Not from his own experts, but Fox or Breitbart or Twitter.
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18-03-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
Deesse23 Wrote:Muslims and the sharia law are to people like trump what were the jewish bankers back in the 30s to Nazis
I don't agree with you. This is not how I understand president Trump.
He has nothing against Muslims. But I am sure he hates Sharia Law and radical Islamic terrorists. He hates all those Islamists who killed and kill thousands of people, enslave women and children, make gays jump from the roofs of the buildings, burn people alive in cages, behead innocent people. Destroy ancient buildings.
I hate Sharia Law. It oppresses women and persecute gays. It persecute infidels.
There is no comparison to what Hitler did and what Trump wants to do.

Deesse23 Wrote:I am puzzled on how somebody can seriously think, imposing sharia law on the USA is even remotely probable, even possible at all. Its totally absurd to make such claims.
I thought it is already imposed on us in some way . We submit ourselves to Sharia Law by not daring to offend Muhammad.
You probably know this Broadway show "Book of Mormon"? I want to see if they dare to make something similar about Muhammad.
If they don't dare they submit themselves to Sharia Law.
I want to see an art "Mohammad in artists' urine". If our artists don't dare to make this kind of art they submit themselves to Sharia Law.

Deesse23 Wrote:If you were Ukrainian, then you would see how Putin uses those very schemes (of fear and agression....fear to justify agression/expansion) on the russian population to invade your country
Of course I see what Putin is doing. I have more information about it than you do.
I blame Obama administration for what they did to Ukraine. Obama administration started this mess in Ukraine. Putin reacted. We would have Crimea if Obama administration didn't get involved in getting rid of Yanukovich.
I blame Putin for what he is doing now. So many people are dying every day on both sides.
Two big sharks Obama and Putin were fighting and Ukrainian people are innocent victims of this fight.
This is how I see it.

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18-03-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 01:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 01:26 PM)Alla Wrote:  My point is that you or liberal judges activists should become president of the Unites States first and than you and they(judges) can tell me that Trump and his people are wrong.
Let me know where I am wrong.

You are confusing the relationship between the executive and judicial branches in the USSR with that in the USA. Maybe Trump should become a judge first before he starts trying to interpret Constitutional Law. Or for that matter, him just reading the damn thing would be a start.
I don't believe that Trump should interpret the law. I want to know: does president have an authority to stop(ban) any group of people for security reasons? Does the law allow him to do this? If yes, then why did judges stop him?

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18-03-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
abaris Wrote:And what's your opinion, or do you take what they say at face value?
I don't believe I have enough information to make an accurate opinion about this. I have never been to those countries. I don't have any classified information. I guess this is when I have to trust the government. I have no other choice.
If you know something I don't mind if you share with me.

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18-03-2017, 02:24 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 02:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 01:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You are confusing the relationship between the executive and judicial branches in the USSR with that in the USA. Maybe Trump should become a judge first before he starts trying to interpret Constitutional Law. Or for that matter, him just reading the damn thing would be a start.
I don't believe that Trump should interpret the law. I want to know: does president have an authority to stop(ban) any group of people for security reasons? Does the law allow him to do this? If yes, then why did judges stop him?

First.... Freedom of religion trumps any law or laws that might enable him to make SOME restrictions. (meaning a flat Muslim band is unconstitutional, and that takes precedence over any other laws).

Now I don't feel like getting into the specifics in this case. I just wanted to answer your question with an example that might help explain.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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18-03-2017, 03:16 PM
RE: Muslim Ban 2.0 - suspended Nationwide.
(18-03-2017 02:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 01:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You are confusing the relationship between the executive and judicial branches in the USSR with that in the USA. Maybe Trump should become a judge first before he starts trying to interpret Constitutional Law. Or for that matter, him just reading the damn thing would be a start.
I don't believe that Trump should interpret the law. I want to know: does president have an authority to stop(ban) any group of people for security reasons? Does the law allow him to do this? If yes, then why did judges stop him?

I'm not qualified to say. Apparently the judges don't think so. My laymens read on it is that Trump is using a law which states "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate." The opposing argument is that the First Amendment does not allow the Government to single out people based on religion.

Judges are the ones who decide when there seem to be 2 competing interpretations of the law. What Trump and his people are claiming now is that the judges are inferring intent to his actions and that's judicial overreach. The judges scoff that they interpret intent all the time in their rulings. If Trump had never mentioned the phrase "Muslim ban" there would never have been a challenge to his order. And he keeps making it worse when he says things like it's just like the first order. Judges don't watch TV? Idiot.

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