Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
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24-08-2014, 11:24 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(23-08-2014 08:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 07:57 PM)freed Wrote:  The idea that the Quran contains scientific revelations before we had knowledge of them is a misguided attempt by Muslims to reconcile their belief with science.

An earlier poster said that Muslims can't even read the original Quran- this is true. I was taught how to read Arabic- but by read I really mean sound out so I can say the words without knowing what they mean. Back-asswards if anything is.

Now, all you really need to do is read the Quran in your native language without trying to bend over backwards and delude yourself about what you're reading. Which brings me to the hadiths- I always found this idea irritating. Why does this perfect book need something else? Isn't it supposed to be clear to everyone who reads it?

Anyway, you have to throw out your own innate sense of morality to go along with a lot of the stuff in there. Having slaves (having sex with those slaves), abusing wives, saying women are less intelligent than men...anyone sensing a theme here?

Islam is a religion written by men for men. Just like most others. When I hear Muslim, I hear "I think men are better than women". Of course, they'll deny this and say something about how they're just different and occupy different roles, blah blah blah. I'm hearing echoes of "separate but equal" here.

It's so embarrassing seeing how Muslim countries treat their women. Some of this stuff isn't in the Quran, but the culture it helps perpetuate is obvious. Saudi Arabia is literally the only country in the world where women can't drive. Female genital mutilation is sickening. Stoning and killing women for how they dress or who they had sex with (though this happens to men too). Punishing rape victims.

Islam is bad for women. And what's bad for women is bad for society, seeing as we're most of the population and that we tend to be the primary care-givers for children. I want to shake the people who've bought into it so whole-heartedly. Wake up. Do the moral thing not what the Quran says is "moral".

Also, on another note, the whole covering your body isn't just demeaning for women, it's unhealthy. How are you supposed to get your vitamin D if you can only show your face and hands (sometimes not even those)?

Okay, I need to stop now. This takes too much energy Smile.

Interesting last point - post revolution Iran now has some empirical evidence that there is harm caused by vitamin D deficiency causing increased MS as an example.
https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitamin-...sclerosis/
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/84/11/e2.96
(technically the population could take vitamin D supplements - but God gave them Sun Shine and they covered themselves up in rebellion and punished with MS for their sins.)

I can't stress enough how important vitamin D is... Deficiencies can lead to a slew of health problems and invites immunological errors which can lead to autoimmune disorders.

For a few years I thought I may have MS. Turns out it is a cyclical borderline MS disorder. I had to specifically ask for vitamin D test (every doctor seemed to think it unnecessary), and found out my levels were almost non existent.

Now my body occasionally attacks itself, and that error will never be corrected. All I can do is pop vitimins and hope it doesn't make any more mistakes.


Related: I keep hearing "Allah is light". Shouldn't followers of Islam embrace that light instead of hiding from it?
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24-08-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(24-08-2014 06:27 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 01:03 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  When you have a dialogue with a Muslim, bear in mind that they haven't actually read the Koran because it is in a language they can't understand and they can't read it in their own language.

They don't actually know what their religion is. They know there is an Allah and they have to fast at Ramadan and do a pilgrimage to Mecca and prey to the East on a little mat five times a day.

But that is it. They go on about how their religion says that if they kill one man it is as bad as killing the whole world (such compassion) and then one of them pulls out a knife and slices someone's head off.

It is a cult of people who are kept in the dark about what their religion really says, because of all the religions, Islam has the most incoherent book which is just an endless load of babble about Allah being all compassionate and all merciful and not a lot else. I have a copy in English, being an infidel.

Also, bear in mind that Muslims have no interest in other religions or world history so, although they can get along in the modern world and hold down jobs, they can't engage in any deep conversation about anything outside Islam or popular culture.

Why is anyone a Muslim? They wouldn't know themselves why they are Muslims because they are just told by their family and Imams that they are and that if they stop being one, they are dead meat.
It seems that you are one of those blind Atheists

Islam and Quran are very clear and an average Muslim can understand most of it.

Here is how theist logic works

Allah exists<=The Koran says so<=therefore Allah exists

Jesus/God,=The bible says so<= therefore the Christian god is the one true god.

Circular reasoning doesn't work when either one of you do it. And both are still comic books reflecting the myths of the people who wrote them at the time.

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24-08-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(24-08-2014 11:21 AM)Baruch Wrote:  I disagree Phil a.
If your right then no one could ever change their mind and we know people do.

Yes good point, I agree with that. Although my view on this topic is that while escape is possible, people can get stuck inside belief systems for long periods of time, due to the echo chamber like nature of belief systems.

I think people can outgrow their belief systems. But (because of the echo chamber problem) they can't be persuaded out of their belief systems.

Phil
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24-08-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(24-08-2014 11:24 AM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 08:33 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Interesting last point - post revolution Iran now has some empirical evidence that there is harm caused by vitamin D deficiency causing increased MS as an example.
https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitamin-...sclerosis/
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/84/11/e2.96
(technically the population could take vitamin D supplements - but God gave them Sun Shine and they covered themselves up in rebellion and punished with MS for their sins.)

I can't stress enough how important vitamin D is... Deficiencies can lead to a slew of health problems and invites immunological errors which can lead to autoimmune disorders.

For a few years I thought I may have MS. Turns out it is a cyclical borderline MS disorder. I had to specifically ask for vitamin D test (every doctor seemed to think it unnecessary), and found out my levels were almost non existent.

Now my body occasionally attacks itself, and that error will never be corrected. All I can do is pop vitimins and hope it doesn't make any more mistakes.


Related: I keep hearing "Allah is light". Shouldn't followers of Islam embrace that light instead of hiding from it?

Your quite right and noticed how many likes my post had - far more than expected.
...and Allah said let there be light ...and USE the God damn light !!!

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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24-08-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(24-08-2014 01:19 PM)phil.a Wrote:  
(24-08-2014 11:21 AM)Baruch Wrote:  I disagree Phil a.
If your right then no one could ever change their mind and we know people do.

Yes good point, I agree with that. Although my view on this topic is that while escape is possible, people can get stuck inside belief systems for long periods of time, due to the echo chamber like nature of belief systems.

I think people can outgrow their belief systems. But (because of the echo chamber problem) they can't be persuaded out of their belief systems.

Phil

A trivial truism.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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25-08-2014, 05:21 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(24-08-2014 06:35 AM)Dom Wrote:  Muslim, every time I peek at one of your threads all I see is you saying that you will say something later. Tongue

When are you going to say something?

I'll pop back in in a day or two and see if you have gotten around to it...
Because you don't follow a logical flow of thoughts

You need to stick to only the thread subject to get a benefit out of the discussion

But as Atheism is very weak, you need to through something from time to time, to evade the main the subject
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25-08-2014, 05:30 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(25-08-2014 05:21 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(24-08-2014 06:35 AM)Dom Wrote:  Muslim, every time I peek at one of your threads all I see is you saying that you will say something later. Tongue

When are you going to say something?

I'll pop back in in a day or two and see if you have gotten around to it...
Because you don't follow a logical flow of thoughts

You need to stick to only the thread subject to get a benefit out of the discussion

But as Atheism is very weak, you need to through something from time to time, to evade the main the subject

When your starting claim is that of an invisible sky hero and ignoring that others have other invisible sky heros, and no one has evidence that one is required at all, you are in no position to lecture us about how logic flows.

I will tell you what I tell Christians and Jews and Hindus and Sikhs, GET IN LINE AND TAKE A NUMBER!

When anyone of you can confirm your sky hero "theory" and beat everyone to the patent office, and win a Nobel Prize, then we can talk.

But your circular reasoning is hardly new or impressive.

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25-08-2014, 05:42 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(25-08-2014 05:30 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(25-08-2014 05:21 AM)Muslim Wrote:  Because you don't follow a logical flow of thoughts

You need to stick to only the thread subject to get a benefit out of the discussion

But as Atheism is very weak, you need to through something from time to time, to evade the main the subject

When your starting claim is that of an invisible sky hero and ignoring that others have other invisible sky heros, and no one has evidence that one is required at all, you are in no position to lecture us about how logic flows.

I will tell you what I tell Christians and Jews and Hindus and Sikhs, GET IN LINE AND TAKE A NUMBER!
Agree

Quote:When anyone of you can confirm your sky hero "theory" and beat everyone to the patent office, and win a Nobel Prize, then we can talk.
Do you consider a Nobel prize as a proof?

Quote:But your circular reasoning is hardly new or impressive.
Can you show which part of my statements is circular?

Anyway, not to waist my time, I'll not answer any post, not related directly to the thread topic
If you want really to discuss, any other subject (Killing infidels, Marriage Age, beheading homosexuals, Flying horses, religion of peace, discrimination in Islam, etc. ) you need to open a separate thread for that

I have answers to all questions, and in most cases proofs or at least logical explanation.
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25-08-2014, 05:51 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
(25-08-2014 05:42 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(25-08-2014 05:30 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  When your starting claim is that of an invisible sky hero and ignoring that others have other invisible sky heros, and no one has evidence that one is required at all, you are in no position to lecture us about how logic flows.

I will tell you what I tell Christians and Jews and Hindus and Sikhs, GET IN LINE AND TAKE A NUMBER!
Agree

Quote:When anyone of you can confirm your sky hero "theory" and beat everyone to the patent office, and win a Nobel Prize, then we can talk.
Do you consider a Nobel prize as a proof?

Quote:But your circular reasoning is hardly new or impressive.
Can you show which part of my statements is circular?

Anyway, not to waist my time, I'll not answer any post, not related directly to the thread topic
If you want really to discuss, any other subject (Killing infidels, Marriage Age, beheading homosexuals, Flying horses, religion of peace, discrimination in Islam, etc. ) you need to open a separate thread for that

I have answers to all questions, and in most cases proofs or at least logical explanation.

Spelled waste, not waist and you say you have answers but you have yet to answer anything. No one needs to open a separate thread, answer them all now or continue talking out of your ass.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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25-08-2014, 05:58 AM
RE: Muslim-Why are you a Muslim?
I opened a thread called "allah loves me this I know" - feel free to discuss the oppression of women over there.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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