Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-08-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 03:01 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 01:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  [...]
Further, she is completely within the law at all times and the response is "well she deserved it"??? What. The. Fuck?

Nope. She failed to obey a lawful command issued by a police officer. In Australia (at least) that's defined as breaking the law. At any rate, the young woman well ahead of her heard the command, partially stopped, and turned around (clearly visible on the tape).

And people who break the law must suffer the consequences of their decision. If Al Matar had simply stopped, and spoken with the police, none of this would've happened. And I also note that nobody has explained why this woman was covering the only "visible" part of her body—her eyes—with dark glasses, and in a subway. If I were a patrolling LEO, that'd be enough to at least arouse my interest in such an individual—who, of course could well have been a male in disguise acting with malicious intent.

Also, why did he/she "pull away" from the police? Why refuse to talk to them and fight with them while "clutching" his/her backpack containing only a cut lunch?

Puer victim blaming from what I can see. You demonstrate no interest in her version of events, and how draconian must your thinking be, that someone who *has not broken* the law - has won the case brought against her in fact - has now been tried and convicted by you of "failure to obey a lawful command" and therefore deserves whatever treatment the police decide to mete out?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
17-08-2016, 04:23 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2016 04:28 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 02:42 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 12:02 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The last time I checked, one reason Western culture is touted by its fans is its tolerance. Are you saying we should follow the example of Muslim countries and demand everyone abide our mores on pain of punishment?

Wow... that's a quantum leap there! "Pain" of punishment? Big Grin

It's a phrase in English that means "under threat of punishment". No need to read into it any further.

(17-08-2016 02:42 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Anyway, no I didn't say or intend to imply that we should "follow the example of Muslim countries". They're your words; please don't ascribe wrongful meaning to my comments.

If you read your post to which I was replying, the gist is clear that you favor legal ramifications for the refusal to conform to the social mores of the country you're in:

(16-08-2016 02:20 PM)SYZ Wrote:  [...] Whenever we visited mosques in Islamic countries, my wife covered her head, and we both removed our shoes as a mark of common courtesy. We also had no expectations of consuming alcohol in our hotels, or in restaurants etc.

So... when Westerners visit and/or work in Islamic countries, we're more than happy to respect their religious traditions, but when Muslims visit our countries, the same respect is not shown towards our Western way of life? And we're expected to bend over backwards and to sit by and see this happening day after day?

All Western countries should follow Switzerland's lead and ban the burqa in public. And impose a $10,000 fine on anybody flouting this law, as the Swiss have recently.

[Bolding added -- Thump]

The fact is that Muslim countries do indeed legislate social dress codes, and the fact is that you are here advocating for the same thing -- because Switzerland is doing exactly what Muslim countries do, legislating dress-codes. Those are your words. Own them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 04:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The fact is that Muslim countries do indeed legislate social dress codes, and the fact is that you are here advocating for the same thing -- because Switzerland is doing exactly what Muslim countries do, legislating dress-codes. Those are your words. Own them.
I don't think it's about clothing as much as it is about masking. We all conceal our bodies more or less completely simply by wearing a jacket, pants and shoes. A burqa is essentially no more than a black dress with an added face covering (i.e. a mask). The garment itself doesn't look all that different from a stylish dress like the one below, so as far as I'm concerned, a burqa-specific ban really isn't needed. You just have to implement the various state codes that outlaw the wearing of masks in public on a federal level.

[Image: q5tQOV.jpg]

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(15-08-2016 03:23 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Take Flint Michigan for instance --- they want top notch, drinkable water -- but they don't want to pay for it.. They want someone else to pony up the cash.

God damned mother fucking tit sucking welfare entitled bastards! Angry

Drinkable water!? Angry
For free Angry

Who the fuck do they think they are drinking clean water...bathing their kids....Angry

I can't remember...does TTA have a jerking off smile?

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Losty's post
17-08-2016, 07:44 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 05:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 04:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The fact is that Muslim countries do indeed legislate social dress codes, and the fact is that you are here advocating for the same thing -- because Switzerland is doing exactly what Muslim countries do, legislating dress-codes. Those are your words. Own them.
I don't think it's about clothing as much as it is about masking. We all conceal our bodies more or less completely simply by wearing a jacket, pants and shoes. A burqa is essentially no more than a black dress with an added face covering (i.e. a mask). The garment itself doesn't look all that different from a stylish dress like the one below, so as far as I'm concerned, a burqa-specific ban really isn't needed. You just have to implement the various state codes that outlaw the wearing of masks in public on a federal level.

[Image: q5tQOV.jpg]

Would you outlaw full-face motorcycle helmets? Ski-masks on a public slope? Did Switzerland? After all, those conceal identity in public.

No, he was advocating for adopting restrictions based on cultural mores, not pragmatism -- and even pragmatism falls short, as in the examples above.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2016, 07:50 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 03:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  Pure victim blaming from what I can see. You demonstrate no interest in her version of events, and how draconian must your thinking be, that someone who *has not broken* the law - has won the case brought against her in fact - has now been tried and convicted by you of "failure to obey a lawful command" and therefore deserves whatever treatment the police decide to mete out?

You may be missing the point here. The police—at that time—had zero knowledge of her OR his identity. All they saw was a person acting suspiciously in a crowded public space, and wearing full Islamic garb and, oddly, carrying a backpack in their arms.

You seem to be assuming that they knew in advance this person's gender, and that they broke some sort of law by apprehending them. Plus you seem to be forgetting that this person was, strangely, wearing dark glasses and a baseball cap in a subway. Not one part of this individual's body was visible, despite facial recognition being, legally, a primary identifier in Western countries. And why did she try to "pull away", which further exacerbated the situation?

I'm also confused—assuming you're an atheist—as to why you're so defensive of this Muslim woman, when all any of us have to decide on is based solely around her version of events leading up to this debacle? Or do you have a "soft spot" for some people based purely on the fact that they're devout religionists?

It also sounds as though you believe that the police shouldn't have even attempted to detain him or her? I'm just glad you're not our chief of police here!

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2016, 07:52 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 07:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 05:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I don't think it's about clothing as much as it is about masking. We all conceal our bodies more or less completely simply by wearing a jacket, pants and shoes. A burqa is essentially no more than a black dress with an added face covering (i.e. a mask). The garment itself doesn't look all that different from a stylish dress like the one below, so as far as I'm concerned, a burqa-specific ban really isn't needed. You just have to implement the various state codes that outlaw the wearing of masks in public on a federal level.

[Image: q5tQOV.jpg]

Would you outlaw full-face motorcycle helmets? Ski-masks on a public slope? Did Switzerland? After all, those conceal identity in public.

No, he was advocating for adopting restrictions based on cultural mores, not pragmatism -- and even pragmatism falls short, as in the examples above.

The helmet gets removed when the person gets off the cycle, and the ski mask gets removed when the person stops skiing. If these people wore these downtown New York or downtown Hicksville, they would be asked to remove them and show ID.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Dom's post
17-08-2016, 08:17 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 04:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  If you read your post to which I was replying, the gist is clear that you favor legal ramifications for the refusal to conform to the social mores of the country you're in [...]

I most certainly do. Which is why I advocate banning the burqa in Australia.

Quote:The fact is that Muslim countries do indeed legislate social dress codes, and the fact is that you are here advocating for the same thing -- because Switzerland is doing exactly what Muslim countries do, legislating dress-codes. Those are your words. Own them.

So you're now conflating the banning of a single Islamic garment—in a Western country—with the overly-oppressive, absolute female dress laws of Islamic countries that can result in death for breaches of? Seriously?

Conversely, if you were a woman temporarily working in an Islamic country, how would you feel about not being permitted by law to wear your bikini on the beach? Presumably you'd expect that law to be waived simply because you're a visiting foreigner? I don't think so.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2016, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2016 08:55 PM by SYZ.)
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 05:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  A burqa is essentially no more than a black dress with an added face covering (i.e. a mask). The garment itself doesn't look all that different from a stylish dress like the one below...

[Image: o_160.jpg]




I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this claim about the similarities of dress, as per this image taken in London:

[Image: burka-449176.jpg]

Note how the burqa totally hides the women's body shapes. Or are these people men? How can we tell?

Confused

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2016, 09:02 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2016 09:16 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 07:52 PM)Dom Wrote:  The helmet gets removed when the person gets off the cycle, and the ski mask gets removed when the person stops skiing. If these people wore these downtown New York or downtown Hicksville, they would be asked to remove them and show ID.

I've got a couple of bikers here in my small town who wear their helmets into my store ... even when the local deputies are here ... and they don't get stopped. By the way, I live in Hicksville.

And I'd imagine that a crowded ski-slope would be as good a place as any for a mass killing.

I ask again -- if facial recognition is that vital, why should the law make these exemptions? And if a drive-by on a crowded street from a motorcyclist, or a shoot-and-ski on a busy slope, don't warrant much concern, then why should Muslim garb be singled out?

Why are Halloween masks legal?

There's a bit of double-standard here, and I'm not buying it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: