Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
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17-08-2016, 09:07 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 08:17 PM)SYZ Wrote:  So you're now conflating the banning of a single Islamic garment—in a Western country—with the overly-oppressive, absolute female dress laws of Islamic countries that can result in death for breaches of? Seriously?

No. A closer reading of my post would reveal to you exactly where I see the parallel, to wit, the parallel lies in allowing the government to regulate dress codes in accordance with the desires of the majority. Nowhere did I say it was the same as the other oppressions Muslim countries practice.

I'd appreciate it if you'd read what I actually write, rather than deploy rhetoric for the sake of Internet Victory. It would help the discussion along.

(17-08-2016 08:17 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Conversely, if you were a woman temporarily working in an Islamic country, how would you feel about not being permitted by law to wear your bikini on the beach? Presumably you'd expect that law to be waived simply because you're a visiting foreigner? I don't think so.

I follow the laws of the land where I am. The discussion here, though, is about a woman who broke no laws getting harassed by police. Hopefully you'll get to understanding that, and soon. Until then, don't expect your red herrings to garner my attention. They say a lot about you, and I don't want to interrupt that.
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17-08-2016, 09:09 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 08:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 05:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  A burqa is essentially no more than a black dress with an added face covering (i.e. a mask). The garment itself doesn't look all that different from a stylish dress like the one below...

[Image: o_160.jpg]




I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this claim about the similarities of dress, as per this image taken in London:

[Image: burka-449176.jpg]

Note how the burqa totally hides the women's body shapes. Or are these people men? How can we tell?

Confused

Why is their gender or body shape any of your concern?

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17-08-2016, 09:14 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(16-08-2016 11:00 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(16-08-2016 10:13 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And as far as somebody looking for monetary gain over bad policing???

Not so much.

The county paying out to somebody who's been offended doesn't solve any problems.... It just makes money for lawyers......

I wonder how you'd suggest compensating someone who's suffered wrongly from bad policing?

...
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17-08-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 09:09 PM)Losty Wrote:  Why is their gender or body shape any of your concern?

You see, they're all potential terrorists, and we must be able to identify them.
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17-08-2016, 09:29 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
I can see some good points to both sides but not being able to see body shape and gender is just a terrible point. So what if I wore a baggy shirt and shaved off all my hair?

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17-08-2016, 09:46 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 08:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 05:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  A burqa is essentially no more than a black dress with an added face covering (i.e. a mask). The garment itself doesn't look all that different from a stylish dress like the one below...

[Image: o_160.jpg]




I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this claim about the similarities of dress, as per this image taken in London:

[Image: burka-449176.jpg]

Note how the burqa totally hides the women's body shapes. Or are these people men? How can we tell?

Confused
To add to the others: The burqa is a piece of clothing, it's up to the individual to get one in their size. As far as I know, there's no verse in the Quran and no hadith outlining how tight it must be. Here are two Muslim women whose burqas aren't so baggy:

[Image: article-0-1F5C741800000578-252_306x502.jpg] [Image: 2EC5077800000578-3332097-image-m-119_1448378704558.jpg]

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
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17-08-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 07:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Would you outlaw full-face motorcycle helmets? Ski-masks on a public slope? Did Switzerland? After all, those conceal identity in public.

No, he was advocating for adopting restrictions based on cultural mores, not pragmatism -- and even pragmatism falls short, as in the examples above.
Well, first I would say that those examples aren't really equivalent to the burqa because they serve an important practical purpose in those situations, to provide security to people in physically dangerous environments. I would actually vote to outlaw their use for anything other than their intended purpose. It should and in many places is illegal to wear a closed helmet or a ski mask in public, most notably when you enter a bank. He might single out the burqa, but I don't. I think they should all be banned.

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18-08-2016, 12:10 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 07:50 PM)SYZ Wrote:  You may be missing the point here. The police—at that time—had zero knowledge of her OR his identity. All they saw was a person acting suspiciously in a crowded public space, and wearing full Islamic garb and, oddly, carrying a backpack in their arms.
This version of events is what is being contested.

Quote:You seem to be assuming that they knew in advance this person's gender, and that they broke some sort of law by apprehending them. Plus you seem to be forgetting that this person was, strangely, wearing dark glasses and a baseball cap in a subway. Not one part of this individual's body was visible, despite facial recognition being, legally, a primary identifier in Western countries. And why did she try to "pull away", which further exacerbated the situation?
You're telling me that if you were unexpectedly jumped by a bunch of thugs you'd just obey quietly? Not even "pull away". And your legal argument is *horse shit*. She wasn't breaking any law.

Quote:I'm also confused—assuming you're an atheist—as to why you're so defensive of this Muslim woman, when all any of us have to decide on is based solely around her version of events leading up to this debacle? Or do you have a "soft spot" for some people based purely on the fact that they're devout religionists?
Hey, let's bring in armchair psychology, why not? Apparently now I have to adhere to clan before justice.

Quote:It also sounds as though you believe that the police shouldn't have even attempted to detain him or her? I'm just glad you're not our chief of police here!
Well I'm certainly glad you're not a policeman - unless perhaps you are - because your understanding of protecting the rights of everyone regardless of colour or creed seems a bit strange.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-08-2016, 04:02 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
...what about clowns?

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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18-08-2016, 05:36 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 09:29 PM)Losty Wrote:  I can see some good points to both sides but not being able to see body shape and gender is just a terrible point. So what if I wore a baggy shirt and shaved off all my hair?

Don't you dare!
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