Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
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18-08-2016, 05:39 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 05:42 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 09:56 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 07:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Would you outlaw full-face motorcycle helmets? Ski-masks on a public slope? Did Switzerland? After all, those conceal identity in public.

No, he was advocating for adopting restrictions based on cultural mores, not pragmatism -- and even pragmatism falls short, as in the examples above.
Well, first I would say that those examples aren't really equivalent to the burqa because they serve an important practical purpose in those situations, to provide security to people in physically dangerous environments. I would actually vote to outlaw their use for anything other than their intended purpose. It should and in many places is illegal to wear a closed helmet or a ski mask in public, most notably when you enter a bank. He might single out the burqa, but I don't. I think they should all be banned.

I don't think government should be in the business of dictating fashion outside of unusual circumstances: no masks in banks or government offices, that sort of thing. But in general public, I will take the risk, infinitesimal as it is, of being killed in a bomb blast, rather than deny another person their right to live their faith (or not) as they please.
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18-08-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(17-08-2016 07:52 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 07:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Would you outlaw full-face motorcycle helmets? Ski-masks on a public slope? Did Switzerland? After all, those conceal identity in public.

No, he was advocating for adopting restrictions based on cultural mores, not pragmatism -- and even pragmatism falls short, as in the examples above.

The helmet gets removed when the person gets off the cycle, and the ski mask gets removed when the person stops skiing. If these people wore these downtown New York or downtown Hicksville, they would be asked to remove them and show ID.

I have worn ski masks in Chicago and have seen many others wearing them as well. I haven't done it in the summer though.

To be fair, terrorists don't seem to care too much about hiding their identities in so far as facial recognition. Even more so, they seem to prefer blending in as much as possible. If you look at the bombers of Istanbul and Brussels airports, they all look like regular folks. That actually makes it easier for them to do their work.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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18-08-2016, 07:35 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 07:26 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 07:52 PM)Dom Wrote:  The helmet gets removed when the person gets off the cycle, and the ski mask gets removed when the person stops skiing. If these people wore these downtown New York or downtown Hicksville, they would be asked to remove them and show ID.

I have worn ski masks in Chicago and have seen many others wearing them as well. I haven't done it in the summer though.

To be fair, terrorists don't seem to care too much about hiding their identities in so far as facial recognition. Even more so, they seem to prefer blending in as much as possible. If you look at the bombers of Istanbul and Brussels airports, they all look like regular folks. That actually makes it easier for them to do their work.

Doesn't have anything to do with Islam or terrorists. People known to cover their faces to escape recognition are mostly robbers and people who are on the police "wanted" list for various reasons.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-08-2016, 07:51 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
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18-08-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 07:26 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 07:52 PM)Dom Wrote:  The helmet gets removed when the person gets off the cycle, and the ski mask gets removed when the person stops skiing. If these people wore these downtown New York or downtown Hicksville, they would be asked to remove them and show ID.

I have worn ski masks in Chicago and have seen many others wearing them as well. I haven't done it in the summer though.

To be fair, terrorists don't seem to care too much about hiding their identities in so far as facial recognition. Even more so, they seem to prefer blending in as much as possible. If you look at the bombers of Istanbul and Brussels airports, they all look like regular folks. That actually makes it easier for them to do their work.

Indeed. If I were to plan a terrorist attack -- or any other crime -- the very last disguise I'd choose would be a burqa. You may as well have "terrorist" emblazoned in fluorescent letters across your back ... judging by the events under discussion.
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18-08-2016, 08:29 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 07:35 AM)Dom Wrote:  Doesn't have anything to do with Islam or terrorists. People known to cover their faces to escape recognition are mostly robbers and people who are on the police "wanted" list for various reasons.

And how many of them have resorted to using burqas to get away with robberies here in America?
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18-08-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 08:29 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 07:35 AM)Dom Wrote:  Doesn't have anything to do with Islam or terrorists. People known to cover their faces to escape recognition are mostly robbers and people who are on the police "wanted" list for various reasons.

And how many of them have resorted to using burqas to get away with robberies here in America?

I have no figures on that, but since burkas still tend to attract a lot of attention in most parts of the country, they would be a stupid choice at this time.

If burkas became common, they would be a perfect choice. In my neck of the woods, many criminals are apprehended because surveillance films are shown on local televisions when there are break ins or robberies. Surveillance cameras would be useless if the criminal wore a burka.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-08-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 10:32 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 08:29 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And how many of them have resorted to using burqas to get away with robberies here in America?

I have no figures on that, but since burkas still tend to attract a lot of attention in most parts of the country, they would be a stupid choice at this time.

If burkas became common, they would be a perfect choice. In my neck of the woods, many criminals are apprehended because surveillance films are shown on local televisions when there are break ins or robberies. Surveillance cameras would be useless if the criminal wore a burka.

By that logic should we then ban Pantyhose since that can easily fool facial recognition?

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18-08-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 11:27 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 10:32 AM)Dom Wrote:  I have no figures on that, but since burkas still tend to attract a lot of attention in most parts of the country, they would be a stupid choice at this time.

If burkas became common, they would be a perfect choice. In my neck of the woods, many criminals are apprehended because surveillance films are shown on local televisions when there are break ins or robberies. Surveillance cameras would be useless if the criminal wore a burka.

By that logic should we then ban Pantyhose since that can easily fool facial recognition?

In fairness, even when a criminal is wearing pantyhose over their head and face there are still features that can be made out such as skin and hair color, facial hair or lack thereof. That is not the case with the burqa.

Also, they are often wearing clothing that can help to identify them.

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18-08-2016, 12:07 PM
RE: Muslim Woman Sues Chicago Police
(18-08-2016 10:32 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 08:29 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And how many of them have resorted to using burqas to get away with robberies here in America?

I have no figures on that, but since burkas still tend to attract a lot of attention in most parts of the country, they would be a stupid choice at this time.

There have been a few.

#sigh
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