Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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12-07-2016, 12:58 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(11-07-2016 09:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-07-2016 01:12 PM)Stevil Wrote:  People hide knives and guns, most of the time you don't know they have them.

How far away do you need to be from a person with a gun in order to be safe? 100m, 1 km?

Anyway, USA is pretty much bottom of my list of places to visit, so keeping away from that mess.
But to most people it is obvious to have laws against guns and knives. But doesn't seem reasonable to have laws against head coverings.
In NZ we have some women in burkas and they are fine, people don't run from them in fear.
However if a person was walking around with a machete or a gun in town, then people would be running, screaming, crying, they would be calling the police.

And if that weapon were concealed under a burqa worn by someone with violent intent ...
Then the problem is the weapon more so that the clothes used to conceal it.

Should we ban pockets because people can carry guns and knives in their pockets or should we ban guns and knives?

If we ban burqas due to their ability to conceal weapons then we need to ban most clothes.

But we shouldn't be thinking of that bump under the burqa as being a weapon. It is a woman, a person, an individual. Rather than run perhaps you could say hi.
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12-07-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(11-07-2016 09:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  There have been suicide bombers who have concealed the explosives under the burqa.

Suicide bomber in burqa kills 15 people in Chad capital

Burqa-clad suicide bomber kills 45 in Pakistan

And clearly the thing that I'll worry about when I'm going to commit a suicide bombing is that someone will recognise me? People have committed suicide bombings wearing jeans too, I'm pretty sure, not that I'm that keen to google it. Shall we then ban jeans? And you know, people have committed *lots* and *lots* of murders using guns. How about we ban guns? After all it's the tool that kills, not the person.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2016, 01:12 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(11-07-2016 09:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-07-2016 02:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  Humm. So maybe we should kick out all our minorities if they ever express a desire to dress differently?

That is not comparable. Try again.
How not? It's exactly the situation described?

Quote:No, the solution is to ban threatening behavior.
... Of which publicly wearing a burqa is such, apparently, even though no one can quite say why. Being Muslim in public seems to be the real threat, but it's just too not-PC to say that.

Quote:I'd be interested to know just how many native-born Swiss fundamentalist Muslims there are. I suspect that number is miniscule.
Well hey, I suspect the number of sex slaves is minuscule too, in Switzerland. Let's just forget about their rights too - they're only a few.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2016, 01:14 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 01:12 AM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:I'd be interested to know just how many native-born Swiss fundamentalist Muslims there are. I suspect that number is miniscule.
Well hey, I suspect the number of sex slaves is minuscule too, in Switzerland. Let's just forget about their rights too - they're only a few.

In any case it's not whether they're native born that's important, it's whether they hold citizenship. ETA: And also, is a burqa solely the province of fundamentalists? Slowminded's article on the French decision mentioned that the woman who brought the case was regarded pretty much as a model citizen who'd chosen to wear the burqa of her own free will and was perfectly prepared to remove it for legal purposes such as identification when required to do so.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2016, 01:23 AM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2016 01:40 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(11-07-2016 02:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-07-2016 12:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  They came to the west voluntarily. They can leave the same way if they don't like the culture.

Humm. So maybe we should kick out all our minorities if they ever express a desire to dress differently? Send the gays all to gay-land, the gun-nuts over to America, the solution to every problem can be "if you don't like it, leave". These may already be Swiss citizens - certainly in France there are French citizens affected. And now they must what? Fuck off back to the desert? Because other citizens have decided they don't deserve to keep rights that they had before. "They came to the West voluntarily" huh? So refugees from a conflict in the Middle East largely the result of American foreign policy took a free choice. I mean, they had the choice to stay too, didn't they?

This discussion has only confirmed for me that my initial gut feeling was correct. I've seen nothing to even remotely convince me that this law is fair or just or even a good idea.

While I agree with your conclusion that there are other motivations in play, be fair -- Chas said "they can leave the same way" -- i.e., voluntarily.

At least, that's the way I read the exchange.
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12-07-2016, 01:26 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 01:23 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  While I agree with your conclusion that there are other motivations in play, be fair -- Chas said "they can leave the same way -- i.e., voluntarily.

At least, that's the way I read the exchange.

I need to learn to read these things with less of my own emotions projected onto them Confused

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2016, 01:33 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(11-07-2016 03:10 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-07-2016 03:08 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I don't know what's best for the people of Switzerland.....


I'll defer to their choices of what they decide is best for their country....

They've always been good about doing the same for other countries....

Truly, anyone who dares to comment on such a thing without actually being Swiss is being incredibly rude and presumptuous. Rolleyes

It may not be rude, but it's perhaps a touch presumptuous ... but I can get away with it because I'm an arrogant American hiding behind teh Webz. Smile

My opinion is worth every centime any Swiss reader has paid for it, you know?
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12-07-2016, 01:55 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 01:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  And clearly the thing that I'll worry about when I'm going to commit a suicide bombing is that someone will recognise me?

O`cmon , are you really gonna pretend that you are that stupid?

It was a man wearing burka, he is not concerned about being recognized after the fact , he was using burka to get to the place of attack without being stopped, searched or recognized as a possible threat.
I can hardly believe that you can`t see the possibility that a known criminal or a terrorist can wear burka so he can move freely without being recognized.

In the attack that Chas linked , the terrorist was attempting to enter a market dressed in burka.

Several witnesses said the bomber had tried to enter the market wearing a woman's burqa. Chad authorities banned the head-to-toe religious garment last month, citing the risk that attackers could use it as a disguise or hide explosives underneath.

"The suicide bomber was a man disguised as a woman (in a burqa). He tried to enter the market when he was intercepted by police," Manga said. "That is when he detonated the bomb."

There you go, direct evidence that a ban on burka saved lives , if Chad didn`t ban burka ,police wouldn`t have stopped him and he would be able to enter the market and kill a lot more people.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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12-07-2016, 02:24 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 01:55 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 01:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  And clearly the thing that I'll worry about when I'm going to commit a suicide bombing is that someone will recognise me?

O`cmon , are you really gonna pretend that you are that stupid?

It was a man wearing burka, he is not concerned about being recognized after the fact , he was using burka to get to the place of attack without being stopped, searched or recognized as a possible threat.
I can hardly believe that you can`t see the possibility that a known criminal or a terrorist can wear burka so he can move freely without being recognized.

In the attack that Chas linked , the terrorist was attempting to enter a market dressed in burka.

Several witnesses said the bomber had tried to enter the market wearing a woman's burqa. Chad authorities banned the head-to-toe religious garment last month, citing the risk that attackers could use it as a disguise or hide explosives underneath.

"The suicide bomber was a man disguised as a woman (in a burqa). He tried to enter the market when he was intercepted by police," Manga said. "That is when he detonated the bomb."

There you go, direct evidence that a ban on burka saved lives , if Chad didn`t ban burka ,police wouldn`t have stopped him and he would be able to enter the market and kill a lot more people.

And... if he'd instead worn a jacket with his explosives underneath he would have been successful? Are markets women only places in Chad? FFS. If his battle plan was defective such that he wore a burqa and was denied access to the market is that a problem with the dress or with his intelligence?

Direct evidence that terrorist stupidity saves lives if you ask me.

ETA: So maybe we should ban jackets too? Since you can hide explosives under them.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2016, 02:46 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
As the king of the USA I hereby decree that no one is allowed to carry a gun in public any more. The reason for this is:
  • Public safety.
  • Guns perpetuate a macho culture which I find offensive.
  • Guns are scary and if I was walking in a park where someone had a gun I would run away.

In support of the public safety argument I will not in fact cite any stats on public safety or on how banning guns will increase public safety, I will instead merely cite numerous examples of armed robberies, mass shootings etc. carried out within the USA using guns.

Since this is exactly the same logic being used to ban burqas no one should have any problem with it. In fact I fully expect the European court of Human Rights to uphold the constitutionality of my ban based on the French concept that banning guns encourages people to "live together".

Anyone who dislikes my decree is welcome to freely choose to peaceably leave the USA.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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