Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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12-07-2016, 01:26 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 01:18 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  So what? What has the per capita ratio to do with?
I was being silly. My post to Morondog wasn't to be taken as a serious argument.

Sorry, my bad. Facepalm

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12-07-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 12:58 AM)Stevil Wrote:  If we ban burqas due to their ability to conceal weapons then we need to ban most clothes.

Nope. Try hiding a sawn-off shottie, or a machete in a pair of jeans LOL.
Inside a raincoat or a jacket, in a pram, in a bag. So many western things to ban.


(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Seriously though... I'm unsure as to why you've repeatedly and strongly defended the wearing of the burka in Western countries? Surely as an atheist you should rail against the enforced public display of religious symbology in a nominally secular country—such as Australia for example.
I am against unnecessary law. I am against a country identifying as Western or American or Swiss or Australian or NZ and people trying to say things such as "we are a Christian country" or "we are a Western country" , "You don't like it, then you leave the country".

It's utter bullshit. The world is globally diverse now. Our countries are a melting pot of cultures, traditions and beliefs. Of course we cannot tolerate violence and instability but we most certainly can tolerate different cultures, different traditions and beliefs, we can tolerate people looking different and dressing different. We do not need to be scared of our own country losing its identity. Our countries are reinventing their identities all the time. We do not need to cling to the past.
A burqa is a piece of cloth. It presents no danger to us.

I do find it greatly amusing that the pro-gun folk who argue about rights when it comes to guns are arguing vehemently about public safety when it comes to burqa's. Are pro-gun people more likely to be against burqas than pro gun control people? Do we have a pro-gun person here who is also pro allowing women to choose to wear a burqa if they want to?

(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  The burka is the ultimate sign of the oppression of Muslim females by their husbands and imams, and this total oppression also prompts their the nonsensical claim that they "choose" to wear such an uncomfortable, impractical, and physically limiting garment.
In some arab muslim countries they might see the Western culture of women wearing low cut tops and hot pants as being a show of the objectification of women. The presenting women as sex objects. They might think Western women are forced to dress sexy, conditioned to think they must be sexy. So perhaps they try to save women from this pressure, this abuse by creating laws forcing women to cover up. They are protecting the women from themselves and their conditioning.

Me, I say, "Fuck it, let the women decide. It's not my place to tell them what they can and can't wear. If the foriegners come here and change the culture, change the laws, then I will embrace that. Once they are citizens, we are all equals, we have an equal vote on what laws we want.

(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  It's also no coincidence that Muslim women who wear all these rags suffer from vitamin D deficiency, which increases the risk of osteomalacia and convulsions in their newborns, and osteoporosis in themselves.
Education is the key, not law.
Are we to outlaw over exposure of sunlight to western women?
Sunlight gives melanoma which is a killer.
Perhaps we need laws to get women to cover up.
But if they need some sunlight perhaps we need laws. We could make it compulsory that a woman walks around at 10am -10:10 and gets her daily dose of sunlight and then compulsory that she covers up after that. Does that seem a good use of the law? To protect our women from themselves.
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12-07-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 06:15 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Indicative of, eh? Hmm. Or is it that people simply can't or won't see that there's a difference between the violent sub-group and the group overall?
RocketSurgeon, your response to Slowminded was perfect. I don't need to respond. Your's was perfect. Big Grin
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12-07-2016, 02:03 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 01:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Nope. Try hiding a sawn-off shottie, or a machete in a pair of jeans LOL.
Inside a raincoat or a jacket, in a pram, in a bag. So many western things to ban.

It's also about hiding one's identity. Your examples aren't relevant.

Quote:
(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Seriously though... I'm unsure as to why you've repeatedly and strongly defended the wearing of the burka in Western countries? Surely as an atheist you should rail against the enforced public display of religious symbology in a nominally secular country—such as Australia for example.
I am against unnecessary law. I am against a country identifying as Western or American or Swiss or Australian or NZ and people trying to say things such as "we are a Christian country" or "we are a Western country" , "You don't like it, then you leave the country".

If you don't like a culture, why be there? Consider

Quote:It's utter bullshit. The world is globally diverse now. Our countries are a melting pot of cultures, traditions and beliefs.

Switzerland? Not so much.

Quote:Of course we cannot tolerate violence and instability but we most certainly can tolerate different cultures, different traditions and beliefs, we can tolerate people looking different and dressing different. We do not need to be scared of our own country losing its identity. Our countries are reinventing their identities all the time. We do not need to cling to the past.
A burqa is a piece of cloth. It presents no danger to us.

Except for the ones already presented.

Quote:I do find it greatly amusing that the pro-gun folk who argue about rights when it comes to guns are arguing vehemently about public safety when it comes to burqa's. Are pro-gun people more likely to be against burqas than pro gun control people? Do we have a pro-gun person here who is also pro allowing women to choose to wear a burqa if they want to?

People who brandish a firearm in public present a danger. That is why it is illegal to do so.

Quote:
(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  The burka is the ultimate sign of the oppression of Muslim females by their husbands and imams, and this total oppression also prompts their the nonsensical claim that they "choose" to wear such an uncomfortable, impractical, and physically limiting garment.
In some arab muslim countries they might see the Western culture of women wearing low cut tops and hot pants as being a show of the objectification of women.

They do.

Quote:The presenting women as sex objects. They might think Western women are forced to dress sexy, conditioned to think they must be sexy.

They do.

Quote:So perhaps they try to save women from this pressure, this abuse by creating laws forcing women to cover up. They are protecting the women from themselves and their conditioning.

Yes, they say that.

Quote:Me, I say, "Fuck it, let the women decide.

But for the most part they can't decide - they aren't allowed to decide.

Quote:It's not my place to tell them what they can and can't wear. If the foriegners come here and change the culture, change the laws, then I will embrace that. Once they are citizens, we are all equals, we have an equal vote on what laws we want.

It's not just the burqa. It's any garment that has the effect of concealment.

Quote:
(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  It's also no coincidence that Muslim women who wear all these rags suffer from vitamin D deficiency, which increases the risk of osteomalacia and convulsions in their newborns, and osteoporosis in themselves.
Education is the key, not law.
Are we to outlaw over exposure of sunlight to western women?
Sunlight gives melanoma which is a killer.
Perhaps we need laws to get women to cover up.
But if they need some sunlight perhaps we need laws. We could make it compulsory that a woman walks around at 10am -10:10 and gets her daily dose of sunlight and then compulsory that she covers up after that. Does that seem a good use of the law? To protect our women from themselves.

Wow, that is so off the wall that no response is possible. Facepalm

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-07-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 02:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 01:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Inside a raincoat or a jacket, in a pram, in a bag. So many western things to ban.

It's also about hiding one's identity. Your examples aren't relevant.
Perhaps if you were following the flow of the thread you would have seen that some people are arguing that a burqa can be used to conceal weapons.

I'm addressing that concern.



(12-07-2016 02:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:Education is the key, not law.
Are we to outlaw over exposure of sunlight to western women?
Sunlight gives melanoma which is a killer.
Perhaps we need laws to get women to cover up.
But if they need some sunlight perhaps we need laws. We could make it compulsory that a woman walks around at 10am -10:10 and gets her daily dose of sunlight and then compulsory that she covers up after that. Does that seem a good use of the law? To protect our women from themselves.

Wow, that is so off the wall that no response is possible. Facepalm
And again, if you had been following the thread, you would have seen that an argument was made that people need sunlight and that a burqa stops them getting sunlight and thus a law ought to be in place to stop the woman from not getting the needed sunlight.

I was addressing that point.
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12-07-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 02:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's also about hiding one's identity. Your examples aren't relevant.
Perhaps if you were following the flow of the thread you would have seen that some people are arguing that a burqa can be used to conceal weapons.

I'm addressing that concern.

You can't address that in isolation because that is not the only concern.

Quote:
(12-07-2016 02:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Wow, that is so off the wall that no response is possible. Facepalm
And again, if you had been following the thread, you would have seen that an argument was made that people need sunlight and that a burqa stops them getting sunlight and thus a law ought to be in place to stop the woman from not getting the needed sunlight.

I was addressing that point.

Then what was the blather about making women cover up? Consider

That whole sunlight thing is so far off the point that it is ridiculous.

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12-07-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 02:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Perhaps if you were following the flow of the thread you would have seen that some people are arguing that a burqa can be used to conceal weapons.

I'm addressing that concern.

You can't address that in isolation because that is not the only concern.
We ought to be debating what the real issue is.
The idea of concealment isn't the real issue, it's just noise, but I'm addressing it because people have brought it up.


(12-07-2016 02:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:And again, if you had been following the thread, you would have seen that an argument was made that people need sunlight and that a burqa stops them getting sunlight and thus a law ought to be in place to stop the woman from not getting the needed sunlight.

I was addressing that point.

Then what was the blather about making women cover up? Consider

That whole sunlight thing is so far off the point that it is ridiculous.
The argument for laws against burqa because women need sunlight is silly. I was trying to show how silly that argument is. It's just noise of course. It isn't the real issue, but it was brought up so I'm addressing that concern.
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12-07-2016, 02:35 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
Many Muslim women "decide" to wear the burqa with about the same degree of self determination as a bank hostage with a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome...


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12-07-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 02:35 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Many Muslim women "decide" to wear the burqa with about the same degree of self determination as a bank hostage with a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome...

Agreed. But I'd say that about almost literally every religious belief.

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12-07-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 12:31 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 12:58 AM)Stevil Wrote:  If we ban burqas due to their ability to conceal weapons then we need to ban most clothes.

Nope. Try hiding a sawn-off shottie, or a machete in a pair of jeans LOL.




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