Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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12-07-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 03:12 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 02:35 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Many Muslim women "decide" to wear the burqa with about the same degree of self determination as a bank hostage with a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome...

Agreed. But I'd say that about almost literally every religious belief.
Same could also be said for people who feel the need to carry guns everyday and everywhere they go.

If we had laws to stop them, then they'd get used to not carrying. They'd realise the world isn't as scary as they imagine. They'd eventually come to feel safe exposing themselves in public without a gun. They wouldn't feel "naked" they'd feel "normal".

Guns eventually wouldn't even be an issue for them. Certainly not a point for a political campaign to be built around.

But that isn't the reason why gun control advocates argue for laws against guns. We really don't care if you are scared into your dependency on them. We argue because guns make society unsafe.

How does a burqa make society unsafe?
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12-07-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
In Islamic States the burka is forced upon women and the penalty for not wearing one is severe. In an Islamic state, women have been stoned to death for not wearing them.

Burkas also cover up abuse, bruises, burns from fire, acid burns and broken bones.

Any crime committed against someone wearing a burka by someone else wearing a burka will never receive any kind of Justice. Witnesses can't identify the attacker and can't properly even identify the victim, even if the attack happens right in front of them. Also, any witness wearing a burka cannot even be placed at the scene of the crime.

These types of social structures make it unsafe for any society who cannot identify a victim, an attacker or a witness because they are all unidentified persons.

I would love to see a cop drama in which everyone wore a burka.
"OK, sir please take a look at this line up and tell me if you recognize anyone."
--"I'm a woman and they all look alike. The person that attacked me was taller. Could you have all of them put on high heels. I think that would help."

"No ma'am, I don't think it would."
"Detective Ramone. Where are you ?"

"Over here sir, by the door."
"If you could escort our victim to her home, that would be great."

"Detective Ramone, I'm not the victim and if you grab me again like that, I'm going to punch you."

(In through the door walks the real detective Ramone, we think)

Stay tuned next week on Burka Cops where one man walks into the police station with a gun and all the cops pull their guns (blink) and suddenly can't tell who the original bad guy was.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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12-07-2016, 06:43 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
Stevil, I'm one who supports reasonable gun-ownership rights and does not think the burqa should be outlawed.

Both those views arise from my belief that the power of the gov't should be limited.
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12-07-2016, 07:36 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 06:43 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Stevil, I'm one who supports reasonable gun-ownership rights and does not think the burqa should be outlawed.

Both those views arise from my belief that the power of the gov't should be limited.
OK, cool. Thanks for putting your hand up on this. I was noticing a pattern, and wasn't quite sure if there was anything in it, but just out of curiosity I was wanting to know.

Of course, I am not sure what is meant by " reasonable gun-ownership rights " as I would think everyone would self identify as supporting reasonable gun-ownership rights. I mean, no one would claim to support unreasonable gun-ownership rights.

Just to clarify: (If you don't mind answering)
1. Do you support public carrying loaded handguns (concealed) in public places for personal protection?
2. Do you support open carry?
3. Do you support general ownership (given they pass background checks) of semi-automatic rifles with capability for high capacity magazines such as AR-15?


For me, I am happy with people owning .22, or shotgun, perhaps .308 on the farm or gun club. I'm somewhat OK for pistols at gun clubs. I'm not happy for high calibre magazine capable rifles and not happy with carrying handguns in public.


I do value small government, but I also value public safety. So my trade-offs are with regards to these two things, so laws need to be justified regarding public safety.
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12-07-2016, 08:52 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2016 08:55 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
Stevil, I have discussed my views with you on gun ownership in other threads. I'm on my phone and am not going to go into it here and now, especially considering how off-topic it is.

If you'd like to discuss guns, I'm sure there are plenty of threads where we might take up that topic?
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12-07-2016, 09:14 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 08:52 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Stevil, I have discussed my views with you on gun ownership in other threads. I'm on my phone and am not going to go into it here and now, especially considering how off-topic it is.

If you'd like to discuss guns, I'm sure there are plenty of threads where we might take up that topic?
Fair enough. I wasn't wanting to discuss guns. I just a couple of questions because for some reason I was seeing a pattern. But it's by the by.

But I don't know what your view on guns is. All I remember from you was that comment about sight-picture or something.
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13-07-2016, 12:11 AM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2016 12:16 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 09:14 PM)Stevil Wrote:  But I don't know what your view on guns is. All I remember from you was that comment about sight-picture or something.

Fair enough; I had thought earlier tonight that you had seen this post of mine in another thread. Forgive my quoting myself.

If you'd like to raise an issue about the ideas I present below, might we do it in that thread, or have you start another? I'd hate to derail this discussion into yet another gun discussion.

(03-10-2015 11:38 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  [...]

My own ideas aimed at solving the deeper problem are mandatory and recurring psychological evaluations of gun owners, coupled with biometric smart guns which can only be programmed by a Federal sales license-holder, who would perform a background check for all private sales, who would require the psych cert for the new buyer, before reprogramming for the new owner.

It's not perfect; we'd have to find a way to get rid of dumb iron, but it would over a period of decades work to reduce if not eliminate illegal ownership, I think. I don't think the political will is in place yet to take these steps, but the sad fact is that eventually, these shootings will continue until the political will is found.

I'll be happy to answer to the best of my ability your other, unanswered, questions, in that thread or another. Suffice it to say that my views garner me critique from both sides of the gun debate here -- I'm too conservative for the liberals, and too liberal for the conservatives. I catch flak from both sides, as no doubt I will again after this post. Smile
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13-07-2016, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2016 02:53 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
<damned double-post again>
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13-07-2016, 01:07 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(12-07-2016 07:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 02:46 AM)morondog Wrote:  As the king of the USA I hereby decree that no one is allowed to carry a gun in public any more. The reason for this is:
  • Public safety.
  • Guns perpetuate a macho culture which I find offensive.
  • Guns are scary and if I was walking in a park where someone had a gun I would run away.

In support of the public safety argument I will not in fact cite any stats on public safety or on how banning guns will increase public safety, I will instead merely cite numerous examples of armed robberies, mass shootings etc. carried out within the USA using guns.

Since this is exactly the same logic being used to ban burqas no one should have any problem with it. In fact I fully expect the European court of Human Rights to uphold the constitutionality of my ban based on the French concept that banning guns encourages people to "live together".

Anyone who dislikes my decree is welcome to freely choose to peaceably leave the USA.

This is why we don't have kings. Drinking Beverage

Um. Can you read the post you quoted and imagine if the US government was to autocratically impose a gun ban - based on the logic presented, and tell me that you wouldn't fight it tooth and nail? For the purposes of argument we're gonna assume that whatever checks and balances were supposed to kick in didn't, the NRA were off duck-shooting, and so the change got made into law. Now it's your job to challenge it and the government says the justification is as follows:
  • Public safety.
  • Guns perpetuate a macho culture which I find offensive.
  • Guns are scary and if I was walking in a park where someone had a gun I would run away.

Yet exactly the same logic is being used to defend this burqa ban, in this thread. ETA: and no matter how dangerous you think burqas are, you've got to admit that an article of clothing is less dangerous than an actual weapon, right?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-07-2016, 06:24 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 01:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 07:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is why we don't have kings. Drinking Beverage

Um. Can you read the post you quoted and imagine if the US government was to autocratically impose a gun ban - based on the logic presented, and tell me that you wouldn't fight it tooth and nail? For the purposes of argument we're gonna assume that whatever checks and balances were supposed to kick in didn't, the NRA were off duck-shooting, and so the change got made into law. Now it's your job to challenge it and the government says the justification is as follows:
  • Public safety.
  • Guns perpetuate a macho culture which I find offensive.
  • Guns are scary and if I was walking in a park where someone had a gun I would run away.

Yet exactly the same logic is being used to defend this burqa ban, in this thread. ETA: and no matter how dangerous you think burqas are, you've got to admit that an article of clothing is less dangerous than an actual weapon, right?

Not exactly the same - I did not use your bullet number 2 in the argument.

For bullet number 1, what is the negative effect on public safety of someone who has passed background checks carrying a firearm?

As for bullet number 3, there are not many places where it is legal to do so without a license. But please clarify - do you mean a pistol in a holster or someone carrying a rifle or shotgun?

The U.S. government can't do that until the Second Amendment gets changed.
A Supreme Court ruling that it doesn't protect an individual right could happen, but it would be in litigation for a very long time.

To make it exactly the same, we will need to institute a system of background checks and licensing for public burqa-wearing. Yes

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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