Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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13-07-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 06:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 06:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Rape usually involves leaving DNA behind. DNA is better than a person's recognition of a face.

In NZ the burqa is legal. I haven't seen any newspaper articles about a problem of people being raped by burqa clad attackers.

Is this really a problem?

Well, NZ is a much more civilized country. Here in the US I would definitely consider it a problem.

One in 5 women here have reported having been raped. The number of women who don't report it is much, much higher.
I'm not saying that we don't have rapes, and I'm not saying that rapes aren't a problem. But is it a problem that rapes are occuring by attackers dressed in burqas?

Would a law against burqas reduce the rape events?

I mean, a person needs to nab you when you are alone and obscured from view from the public. If you are alone except for a person with a mask or a burqa, why don't you keep your distance?

It would be easier for them to pull a mask out of their pocket, when opportunity arises, do the crime then get run away and get rid of the mask. I would think a burqa would be somewhat inconvenient and cumbersome for the crime.
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13-07-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 04:06 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 03:43 PM)Dom Wrote:  The Saudis are dictating what women can wear. The Swiss are excluding one item of clothing from being worn by anyone.

Not the same.

Both the Saudis and the Swiss are telling someone how to dress. The Saudis based on their backward patriarchal bullshit and the Swiss on their forward-thinking we-know-what's-best-for-you-fuck-you-if-you-disagree bullshit.

No, as Dom said there is both a quantitative difference and a qualitative difference between decreeing what what must be worn and what one thing must not.
Especially when that one thing is alien to the culture and perceived as dangerous.

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13-07-2016, 07:12 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 06:56 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 06:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, NZ is a much more civilized country. Here in the US I would definitely consider it a problem.

One in 5 women here have reported having been raped. The number of women who don't report it is much, much higher.
I'm not saying that we don't have rapes, and I'm not saying that rapes aren't a problem. But is it a problem that rapes are occuring by attackers dressed in burqas?

Would a law against burqas reduce the rape events?

I mean, a person needs to nab you when you are alone and obscured from view from the public. If you are alone except for a person with a mask or a burqa, why don't you keep your distance?

It would be easier for them to pull a mask out of their pocket, when opportunity arises, do the crime then get run away and get rid of the mask. I would think a burqa would be somewhat inconvenient and cumbersome for the crime.

In our make believe scenario, kids are wearing burkas as fashion statement.

They can't stay out of school because others are wearing burkas.

Probably the greatest number of rapes happen in schools and colleges.

I would see it as a problem.

Remember, we are talking hypothetically, with the point being an attempt to look at it without the baggage of religious and cultural connotations.

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13-07-2016, 07:31 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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13-07-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 07:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  In our make believe scenario, kids are wearing burkas as fashion statement.

They can't stay out of school because others are wearing burkas.

Probably the greatest number of rapes happen in schools and colleges.

I would see it as a problem.

Remember, we are talking hypothetically, with the point being an attempt to look at it without the baggage of religious and cultural connotations.
In many schools there are uniforms prescribed by the school.
So many kids can't freely express themselves via their choice of fashion.

If rapes are occuring on school grounds during school hours then that is a serious problem.

Perhaps CCTV, is in order. How are the kids getting isolated? Is this happening in the toilets, on the playground, in a classroom?

If you banned burqa from school would this solve the problem?
Could you get burqa wearers to put a number or name onto their burqa?

If boys are fond wearing a burqa perhaps that can be an offense, certainly if someone is found wearing a burqa with someone elses ID on it, that would be an offense.

Many things can be considered rather than rushing to ban burqa from the country.
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13-07-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 07:54 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 07:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  In our make believe scenario, kids are wearing burkas as fashion statement.

They can't stay out of school because others are wearing burkas.

Probably the greatest number of rapes happen in schools and colleges.

I would see it as a problem.

Remember, we are talking hypothetically, with the point being an attempt to look at it without the baggage of religious and cultural connotations.
In many schools there are uniforms prescribed by the school.
So many kids can't freely express themselves via their choice of fashion.

If rapes are occuring on school grounds during school hours then that is a serious problem.

Perhaps CCTV, is in order. How are the kids getting isolated? Is this happening in the toilets, on the playground, in a classroom?

If you banned burqa from school would this solve the problem?
Could you get burqa wearers to put a number or name onto their burqa?

If boys are fond wearing a burqa perhaps that can be an offense, certainly if someone is found wearing a burqa with someone elses ID on it, that would be an offense.

Many things can be considered rather than rushing to ban burqa from the country.

In the US, few schools have uniforms, only private ones do. Colleges and universities most certainly don't.

What's a CCTV? Closed circuit TV? I have no idea how many schools have these, I have no kids in school. I don't think the colleges and universities have them, but I may be wrong. In any case, I have never heard of any boys being stupid enough to get taped during a rape. Although there probably are Tongue

Why are burkas not allowed for boys? Remember, we are talking about a situation without religious or cultural connotations. There is nothing that says burkas are for girls in that scenario.

So you think that banning the garment selectively is better than banning it uniformly? Why?

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13-07-2016, 08:35 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 08:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why are burkas not allowed for boys? Remember, we are talking about a situation without religious or cultural connotations. There is nothing that says burkas are for girls in that scenario.

So you think that banning the garment selectively is better than banning it uniformly? Why?
I don't think there is a need to ban burkas at all.
If you are worried then make sure you are in public places, if you are worried about people wearing burkas then keep your distance, just as you would keep your distance from anyone that looks suspicious.

However, I'm trying to consider a compromise for your concerns.

In reality, there is a religious need for some females to wear the burka.
If you are worried about criminals hiding their identity, well it is very rare for a rapist to be a female. So ban males from wearing them.
We currently have laws where males can go topless but females can't.
Why not a law were males can't wear burkas? (if you are going to go down the law path)
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13-07-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 08:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  In any case, I have never heard of any boys being stupid enough to get taped during a rape.
Yep, so if you have an area covered by CCTV then you have a safe area.
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13-07-2016, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2016 09:07 PM by Dom.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 08:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 08:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  In any case, I have never heard of any boys being stupid enough to get taped during a rape.
Yep, so if you have an area covered by CCTV then you have a safe area.

Well, we won't accomplish anything here.

I thought we might if we removed the religious/cultural aspects, but not so.

You have a nice day, it's time to cook dinner here. Thumbsup

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13-07-2016, 09:41 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 08:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 08:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Yep, so if you have an area covered by CCTV then you have a safe area.

Well, we won't accomplish anything here.

I thought we might if we removed the religious/cultural aspects, but not so.

You have a nice day, it's time to cook dinner here. Thumbsup
It's the aspect of govt forcing certain unnecessary restrictions on people that is the real issue.

I am happy for govt to make us safe by making guns and knives, swords, machettes etc illegal, cause those things are dangerous weapons.

But a piece of cloth isn't dangerous. I can see the argument that perhaps anonymity may make someone braver and allows them to perform a crime and perhaps not get caught. But there are many ways to hide your face. A balaclava, a mask, a stocking, a bandanna etc.
A burka is the lest of your worries.

I do feel, however it is the perception that a burka is a repression of a woman which is the real reason why some people want the burka to be outlawed that coupled with the fact that they don't see it as part of their current culture.
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