Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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14-07-2016, 12:20 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 04:38 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 04:23 PM)Stevil Wrote:  In fairness pretty much all countries have some laws on attire. For example it is mostly illegal to be naked in public.
I think an unjust law is that men can be topless but women cannot.

But there are no cultures or religions that require women to bare breasts so we aren't excluding those cultures from our countries.

With the burqa, some people see this as a religious or cultural requirement. So if you ban the burqa then you are excluding that culture, excluding that religion.

Now, as much as I would love to see a world without religion, I also don't want my country's laws to exclude religious people.

It's actually an opportunity for people. Perhaps they come from a deeply religious place, perhaps they are used to and ingrained into wearing a burka. They come to my country and have the safety of knowing they can wear their burka. They do so and don't get hassled for it. Noone pushes them and they have no reason to push back or get more resolute in their insistence on wearing it. It becomes a non issue.

Perhaps over time, they get used to seeing other women's faces, perhaps over time they give it a try, revealing their eyes in public, perhaps then revealing their face and then perhaps their hair. Who knows?

But it might be an opportunity for some women to slowly release those chains. If we outright ban it, then those women will stay in their own country and will never get to experience a more tolerant society such as NZ. For NZ to allow the burqa there is no down side to it. Burqas aren't dangerous to our society.

I asked this before in this thread, but it was largely ignored. So, again:

Let's assume the burka was not connected to Islam or Muslims or anything at all. We have a clean slate burka.

But, the latest youth generation has adopted it as the "in fashion", like the droopy pants before.

You have teens and they are wearing it.

How do you feel about it now?

Let them do it. I wore a hoodie 24/7 as a teen.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-07-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 06:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 06:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Rape usually involves leaving DNA behind. DNA is better than a person's recognition of a face.

In NZ the burqa is legal. I haven't seen any newspaper articles about a problem of people being raped by burqa clad attackers.

Is this really a problem?

Well, NZ is a much more civilized country. Here in the US I would definitely consider it a problem.

One in 5 women here have reported having been raped. The number of women who don't report it is much, much higher.

And banning burqas is going to improve the rape stats? Come on. How many people are raped by a burqa wearing person? If you ban burqas you think that person won't find something else to wear while raping people? Even if it did have an effect, if preventing people from wearing the burqa meant that they magically lost all desire to rape someone, exactly how many rapes are going to be prevented if we exclude the tiny fraction of rapists who wear religious attire?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-07-2016, 02:37 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 06:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  One in 5 women here have reported having been raped. The number of women who don't report it is much, much higher.
I'm sorry Dom, but that is just an egregious misrepresentation of the 1-in-5 statistic. Firstly, the study you're referring to isn't about rape alone, it's about rape and various degrees of sexual assault (such as groping or forced kissing). The number drops down to 1-in-7 if you exclude sexual assault from the study. Secondly and much more importantly, the researchers asked female college students at two universities in the US about their experiences. The researchers themselves said that the study is not meant to be representative of all US college students, let alone all women in the US. Thirdly, the study didn't measure the rate of reports of these crimes, it measured their prevalence. The college students weren't asked whether or not they had reported the crime, they were asked whether or not they had experienced it.

In 2014, two researchers who worked on this study published this article in Time magazine to clear up common misconceptions about it and to explain some of the study's methodological shortcomings.

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14-07-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-07-2016 02:37 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 06:39 PM)Dom Wrote:  One in 5 women here have reported having been raped. The number of women who don't report it is much, much higher.
I'm sorry Dom, but that is just an egregious misrepresentation of the 1-in-5 statistic. Firstly, the study you're referring to isn't about rape alone, it's about rape and various degrees of sexual assault (such as groping or forced kissing). The number drops down to 1-in-7 if you exclude sexual assault from the study. Secondly and much more importantly, the researchers asked female college students at two universities in the US about their experiences. The researchers themselves said that the study is not meant to be representative of all US college students, let alone all women in the US. Thirdly, the study didn't measure the rate of reports of these crimes, it measured their prevalence. The college students weren't asked whether or not they had reported the crime, they were asked whether or not they had experienced it.

In 2014, two researchers who worked on this study published this article in Time magazine to clear up common misconceptions about it and to explain some of the study's methodological shortcomings.

I am going to start a new thread on this soon, I have been planning on it but haven't had the time to explore it enough to discuss. It is a huge topic all of it's own, and the statistics are so terribly flawed. All of them as far as I have gotten now. But - one question that will help me - are you talking about any of the Rainn stats? I hope you don't mind setting it aside for now, there is so much contradiction in what is published and so much public misconception, one can make any case one wants using available stats. And it is a very important topic and deserves it's own thread. I'm just not ready yet though, and in the summertime I spend considerably less of my time on the computer. This is not something one can look up quickly. Thanks for pointing out how flawed available stats are though. They all suck.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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14-07-2016, 06:56 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
I heard the snow skiing was crap in Saudi Arabia. How can one compare the two???

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-07-2016, 07:11 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-07-2016 06:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 02:37 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm sorry Dom, but that is just an egregious misrepresentation of the 1-in-5 statistic. Firstly, the study you're referring to isn't about rape alone, it's about rape and various degrees of sexual assault (such as groping or forced kissing). The number drops down to 1-in-7 if you exclude sexual assault from the study. Secondly and much more importantly, the researchers asked female college students at two universities in the US about their experiences. The researchers themselves said that the study is not meant to be representative of all US college students, let alone all women in the US. Thirdly, the study didn't measure the rate of reports of these crimes, it measured their prevalence. The college students weren't asked whether or not they had reported the crime, they were asked whether or not they had experienced it.

In 2014, two researchers who worked on this study published this article in Time magazine to clear up common misconceptions about it and to explain some of the study's methodological shortcomings.

I am going to start a new thread on this soon, I have been planning on it but haven't had the time to explore it enough to discuss. It is a huge topic all of it's own, and the statistics are so terribly flawed. All of them as far as I have gotten now. But - one question that will help me - are you talking about any of the Rainn stats? I hope you don't mind setting it aside for now, there is so much contradiction in what is published and so much public misconception, one can make any case one wants using available stats. And it is a very important topic and deserves it's own thread. I'm just not ready yet though, and in the summertime I spend considerably less of my time on the computer. This is not something one can look up quickly. Thanks for pointing out how flawed available stats are though. They all suck.
I wasn't talking about any of their statistics, though I did stumble on their website while I was researching the topic. Anyway, no worries, I don't mind talking about this at a later date. Tongue

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14-07-2016, 07:20 AM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2016 07:41 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(13-07-2016 02:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 02:36 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Selling it as social safety is a lie. It's like when Republicans try and sell voter ID, for the sake of preventing voter fraud.

Here's the word of the man who proposed the law:

"Georgio Ghiringhelli, who proposed the law, said the ruling would send a message to "Islamic fundamentalists" in the country.

"Those who want to integrate are welcome, irrespective of their religion, but those who rebuff our values and aim to build a parallel society based on religious laws, and want to place it over our society, are not welcome," he said."

Do you actually think having "a parallel society based on religious laws" is safe? Consider

Is that what we have here in the US, which permits burqas, and variety of other religious head dressings and outfits? A parallel society based on religious laws?

Why the Swiss and other countries have a difficult time integrating immigrants, comes as no surprise. If you imagine that immigrants should be integrated into society by force, then you're not doing it right.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-07-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-07-2016 07:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 02:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  Do you actually think having "a parallel society based on religious laws" is safe? Consider

Is that what we have here in the US, which permits burqas, and variety of other religious head dressings and outfits? A parallel society based on religious laws?

Why the Swiss and other countries have a difficult time integrating immigrants, comes as no surprise.

Is this you?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-07-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-07-2016 07:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 02:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  Do you actually think having "a parallel society based on religious laws" is safe? Consider

Is that what we have here in the US, which permits burqas, and variety of other religious head dressings and outfits? A parallel society based on religious laws?

Why the Swiss and other countries have a difficult time integrating immigrants, comes as no surprise.

Lol, are you actually comparing USA and Switzerland ( or any other western country ) and coming to a conclusion "yup, we in USA obviously did a better job" ?
What rock are you living under?

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14-07-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-07-2016 07:40 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 07:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is that what we have here in the US, which permits burqas, and variety of other religious head dressings and outfits? A parallel society based on religious laws?

Why the Swiss and other countries have a difficult time integrating immigrants, comes as no surprise.

Lol, are you actually comparing USA and Switzerland ( or any other western country ) and coming to a conclusion "yup, we in USA obviously did a better job" ?
What rock are you living under?

When it comes to integration yes. Are we perfect in this regard, no? But we definitely done a far better job in this regard than our European brethren.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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