Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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17-07-2016, 04:23 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
Quote:Obviously a teacher wearing Muslim clothes or a Christian cross necklace or a habit or whatnot isn't really the same as teaching the kids to believe in a particular god or particular religious viewpoint.
Quote:I think from what you have posted is that the courts are saying that too, but warning that if in the habit or burqa then they need to be extra careful about saying stuff that may seem religious.
That seems to be exactly the point of the SCOGER Big Grin

A few more points it made:

  1. Religious freedom weighs in heavy. So in order to limit this, there must be an appropriately heavy counter weight
  2. Limiting women in their porfession as teachers (which would be the result of a general ban of burqa) would violate their right for being treated equal to men
  3. The goals of the state to keep public peace and have people (in public office) refrain from making any religious statements are legit goals (saying between the lines that the actual law was not. I think this is a consolation to the state)
  4. Wearing any religious clothing does not infringe the rights of studends, but demonstrates the right of the teacher to have his religion, which is possibly counterweighted by other teachers with other religious beliefs. In total there is no bias for the students.
  5. Freedom of religion also outweighs the right of parents to keep their children from the influence of religious teachers
  6. There is no conflict in general between religious freedom (teacher) and duty of the state (germany) to raise students without any biased worldview
  7. Wearing any religious garment (garment considered to be mandatory by the particular religion) weighs in much more then a crucifix at the wall of the classrom, which is a) disposable and b) would be a statement by the state unlike the clothes any individual is wearing
  8. If the appearance of a religious teacher does infringe the right of the students, then it doesnt matter if this was intentional by the teacher or not
  9. Wearing a head scarf can not be considered evangelizing or advertising in any way
  10. The original (state) law that intended to prefer judeo-christian belief infringes on the right for equal treatment of all religions.
  11. SCOGER also sees no reasons to discriminate against any religious expression from outside of the occidental/western christian culture
  12. Any (state) law preferring one or discriminating against another religion is unconstitutional
  13. The duty of the state to educate studens also does not validate to prefer to employ teachers of judeo-christian belief
  14. As far as state constitution goes, if it contains any reference to christian values, these must be referred to as secularized christian values
    This one sticks out to me. Although we dont have separation of church and state, the SCOGER seems to push it as far as ist can.

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17-07-2016, 04:35 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-07-2016 11:04 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-07-2016 05:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Wrong - "Burqa bans already in place in many countries"

Did you read that article Chas? It doesn't support your case at all.

That is 11 countries cited.

Since my 'case' is that the banning is not rare, I'd say it supports that since there are entire countries that do so.

And my arguement is not about its religious significance. There are religious practices that are banned for secular reasons.

Try being a practicing Aztec priest these days. Consider

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17-07-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
Chas is correct.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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17-07-2016, 06:17 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
She mean there is no freedom for suicide bombers
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17-07-2016, 06:25 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(17-07-2016 06:17 AM)rahulps108 Wrote:  She mean there is no freedom for suicide bombers

Who the fuck are you?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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17-07-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-07-2016 05:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  All face coverings should be banned; the burqa is just one of them.

So I can't wear my beanie and scarf in the winter, in the way that I normally do that covers my head, and mouth, leaving primarily my eye area exposed? This should be illegal right in your view?

We should also ban ski masks as well correct?

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17-07-2016, 06:35 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-07-2016 01:24 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If someone attacks you, you either defend yourself or you run away. It does not matter what their identity is.

I'd have to disagree with this. If you're assaulted or raped or robbed on the street, then the assailant's identity is of principal importance to their identification and subsequent charging by the police. And of course, a person's face is the prime identifier we all use to tell one another from the hundreds of people we see each and every day.

If someone's face is covered by a burka, then they have a means of escaping apprehension—as in the case of Sydney NSW woman Carnita Matthews—who also has a long record of driving offences and a history of not paying her fines. This is because she refuses (legally, in Australia) to remove her headscarf, and therefore cannot be identified by either witnesses or the police.

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17-07-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(17-07-2016 06:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So I can't wear my beanie and scarf in the winter, in the way that I normally do that covers my head, and mouth, leaving primarily my eye area exposed? This should be illegal right in your view?

You obviously have little idea of what a traditional burka actually looks like...

[Image: 33986-3x2-340x227.jpg]
Burqa-clad Afghan women show
identification cards as they wait to vote


The other obvious point that you're missing is that a police officer can legally demand you to remove your scarf and/or beanie, whereas he doesn't have that same legal right with Muslims. In a largely secular Australia, we're starting to (rightly) challenge that loophole.

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17-07-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-07-2016 05:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:I'm defending a position that is held by most of the free world.
It is rare that burka's are illegal.

Wrong - "Burqa bans already in place in many countries"



(17-07-2016 04:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Since my 'case' is that the banning is not rare, I'd say it supports that since there are entire countries that do so.
It is rare in the free world. The vast majority of countries do not ban the burqa.
You pointing out one or two countries out of hundreds does not support your case.
Problem with the 11 that you pointed out is that in most of those cases the burqa isn't illegal.

Your case throughout this thread is that the burka should be illegal for security reasons. In none of the situations that you cited have any of the reasons been for security. They have been an anti religion thing.


I can understand that you may consider the combination of a face covering and a weapon such as a gun a dangerous situation. I do too.
You have come to think people ought to have guns so you focus on the face covering.
I have come to think people with guns (regardless of the face covering) present a danger. And I have come to think people with face coverings but without weapons don't present a danger (no more so that a person without a face covering).
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20-07-2016, 04:26 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(17-07-2016 02:25 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-07-2016 05:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Wrong - "Burqa bans already in place in many countries"



(17-07-2016 04:35 AM)Chas Wrote:  Since my 'case' is that the banning is not rare, I'd say it supports that since there are entire countries that do so.
It is rare in the free world. The vast majority of countries do not ban the burqa.
You pointing out one or two countries out of hundreds does not support your case.
Problem with the 11 that you pointed out is that in most of those cases the burqa isn't illegal.

Your case throughout this thread is that the burka should be illegal for security reasons. In none of the situations that you cited have any of the reasons been for security. They have been an anti religion thing.


I can understand that you may consider the combination of a face covering and a weapon such as a gun a dangerous situation. I do too.
You have come to think people ought to have guns so you focus on the face covering.
I have come to think people with guns (regardless of the face covering) present a danger. And I have come to think people with face coverings but without weapons don't present a danger (no more so that a person without a face covering).

I think ur wrong. A person who hide their face is hiding their identity it doesnt have to do anything with religion. When ur in a public u must show ur identity rather hiding in a sack. To be frank we cant even understand what is the gender of the one inside the burka.
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