Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
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14-09-2016, 11:12 PM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2016 11:26 PM by morondog.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-09-2016 08:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 04:10 PM)morondog Wrote:  Well it sure seems like they are given that there's so much effort expended justifying why they shouldn't be allowed to dress how they like Dodgy

Oh, for fuck's sake. Facepalm

If burkas are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. Why is this so fucking hard to understand?

Because if fucking *stockings* are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. I draw the line at government interference in freedom of expression, after reasonable limits have been met, such as uncovering the face on request by an officer of the law. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

ETA: And we don't infringe on the right of people to wear stockings because people up to no good might use them for nefarious purposes. By the way can I take your guns away? Because people up to no good might do bad things with them.

ETA ETA: I see it as punishing a large crowd of innocent people by infringing on one of their fundamental rights, for the sake of some kind of amorphous "safety". In the same way as me taking away your guns because *someone else* might do something bad with them is punishing the wrong person. And a gun is *made* as a killing tool, which you can hardly argue is true of a burqa.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-09-2016, 08:29 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-09-2016 11:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 08:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, for fuck's sake. Facepalm

If burkas are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. Why is this so fucking hard to understand?

Because if fucking *stockings* are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. I draw the line at government interference in freedom of expression, after reasonable limits have been met, such as uncovering the face on request by an officer of the law. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

Stockings? WTF?

Quote:ETA: And we don't infringe on the right of people to wear stockings because people up to no good might use them for nefarious purposes.

Stockings? WTF?

Quote:By the way can I take your guns away? Because people up to no good might do bad things with them.

People up to no good do do bad things with them. That is why we have laws restricting possession.

Quote:ETA ETA: I see it as punishing a large crowd of innocent people by infringing on one of their fundamental rights, for the sake of some kind of amorphous "safety".

Amorphous? It is quite clear.

Quote:In the same way as me taking away your guns because *someone else* might do something bad with them is punishing the wrong person.

Someone else? It is the person wearing the burka who is unidentifiable.

Quote:And a gun is *made* as a killing tool, which you can hardly argue is true of a burqa.

Non sequitur.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-09-2016, 01:50 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2016 01:53 PM by morondog.)
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(15-09-2016 08:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 11:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  Because if fucking *stockings* are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. I draw the line at government interference in freedom of expression, after reasonable limits have been met, such as uncovering the face on request by an officer of the law. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

Stockings? WTF?

As pointed out earlier in the thread, if one wishes for example to rob a bank then a stocking is a very useful face covering which renders the perp unidentifiable.

Quote:
Quote:ETA: And we don't infringe on the right of people to wear stockings because people up to no good might use them for nefarious purposes.

Stockings? WTF?
In the same way that IMO we *shouldn't* be making laws about burqas.

Quote:People up to no good do do bad things with them. That is why we have laws restricting possession.
And in the same way I support laws restricting when one may covers one's face, I simply draw the line differently to you.

Quote:Amorphous? It is quite clear.
Then you should be able to explain what precisely about an Arabic woman wearing a burqa is dangerous? Or (as we earlier referenced) you should be able to make a case for the crimes that will be prevented by banning the burqa. Since lots of criminals wear stockings, I think banning stockings will also prevent crimes. Since criminals wear clothes, how about we ban everything except beach wear?

Quote:
Quote:In the same way as me taking away your guns because *someone else* might do something bad with them is punishing the wrong person.

Someone else? It is the person wearing the burka who is unidentifiable.
Thus every person holding a gun is potentially a murderer. What I'm saying is that the vast majority of women who wear a burqa are a threat to nobody, in the same way that you have previously several times said that the vast majority of gun owners are a threat to nobody. Punishing these women for the crimes of someone wearing a burqa is akin to punishing all gun owners for the crimes of a single maniac.

Quote:
Quote:And a gun is *made* as a killing tool, which you can hardly argue is true of a burqa.

Non sequitur.

I'm pointing out the curiously, there's no support for banning guns despite that it is explicitly a killing tool, while banning the burqa, a mere clothing item, is met with approval.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-09-2016, 07:11 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(15-09-2016 01:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-09-2016 08:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  Stockings? WTF?

As pointed out earlier in the thread, if one wishes for example to rob a bank then a stocking is a very useful face covering which renders the perp unidentifiable.

Quote:Stockings? WTF?
In the same way that IMO we *shouldn't* be making laws about burqas.

Quote:People up to no good do do bad things with them. That is why we have laws restricting possession.
And in the same way I support laws restricting when one may covers one's face, I simply draw the line differently to you.

Quote:Amorphous? It is quite clear.
Then you should be able to explain what precisely about an Arabic woman wearing a burqa is dangerous? Or (as we earlier referenced) you should be able to make a case for the crimes that will be prevented by banning the burqa. Since lots of criminals wear stockings, I think banning stockings will also prevent crimes. Since criminals wear clothes, how about we ban everything except beach wear?

Quote:Someone else? It is the person wearing the burka who is unidentifiable.
Thus every person holding a gun is potentially a murderer. What I'm saying is that the vast majority of women who wear a burqa are a threat to nobody, in the same way that you have previously several times said that the vast majority of gun owners are a threat to nobody. Punishing these women for the crimes of someone wearing a burqa is akin to punishing all gun owners for the crimes of a single maniac.

Quote:Non sequitur.

I'm pointing out the curiously, there's no support for banning guns despite that it is explicitly a killing tool, while banning the burqa, a mere clothing item, is met with approval.

It is not about Muslim women wearing burkas, it is about anyone being completely disguised in public.

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16-09-2016, 07:37 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(14-09-2016 11:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 08:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, for fuck's sake. Facepalm

If burkas are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. Why is this so fucking hard to understand?

Because if fucking *stockings* are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. I draw the line at government interference in freedom of expression, after reasonable limits have been met, such as uncovering the face on request by an officer of the law. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

ETA: And we don't infringe on the right of people to wear stockings because people up to no good might use them for nefarious purposes. By the way can I take your guns away? Because people up to no good might do bad things with them.

ETA ETA: I see it as punishing a large crowd of innocent people by infringing on one of their fundamental rights, for the sake of some kind of amorphous "safety". In the same way as me taking away your guns because *someone else* might do something bad with them is punishing the wrong person. And a gun is *made* as a killing tool, which you can hardly argue is true of a burqa.

Burka wearing women/men enjoy pride of place near the bottom of my list of fears. The burka is a terrible accessory for committing a crime in most parts of the US. You have better chances of success at any crime dressed as a law enforcement officer. I say leave them alone until it can be demonstrated that they have become a real (not merely hypothesized) security risk.

Presently, I worry more about if my son will get back home alive from school. Because of events like Sandy Hook Elementary, Columbine...these events that happen in what are generally considered nice and safe neighborhoods are more concerning to me, because it's not obvious how to avoid them.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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16-09-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-09-2016 07:37 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 11:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  Because if fucking *stockings* are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. I draw the line at government interference in freedom of expression, after reasonable limits have been met, such as uncovering the face on request by an officer of the law. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

ETA: And we don't infringe on the right of people to wear stockings because people up to no good might use them for nefarious purposes. By the way can I take your guns away? Because people up to no good might do bad things with them.

ETA ETA: I see it as punishing a large crowd of innocent people by infringing on one of their fundamental rights, for the sake of some kind of amorphous "safety". In the same way as me taking away your guns because *someone else* might do something bad with them is punishing the wrong person. And a gun is *made* as a killing tool, which you can hardly argue is true of a burqa.

Burka wearing women/men enjoy pride of place near the bottom of my list of fears. The burka is a terrible accessory for committing a crime in most parts of the US. You have better chances of success at any crime dressed as a law enforcement officer. I say leave them alone until it can be demonstrated that they have become a real (not merely hypothesized) security risk.

Presently, I worry more about if my son will get back home alive from school. Because of events like Sandy Hook Elementary, Columbine...these events that happen in what are generally considered nice and safe neighborhoods are more concerning to me, because it's not obvious how to avoid them.

Suicide bomber disguised in burqa

Burqa-clad suicide bomber kills 45 in Pakistan

I won't be happy when it comes time to say "I told you so", but I will most certainly say it. Drinking Beverage

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16-09-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-09-2016 08:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2016 07:37 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Burka wearing women/men enjoy pride of place near the bottom of my list of fears. The burka is a terrible accessory for committing a crime in most parts of the US. You have better chances of success at any crime dressed as a law enforcement officer. I say leave them alone until it can be demonstrated that they have become a real (not merely hypothesized) security risk.

Presently, I worry more about if my son will get back home alive from school. Because of events like Sandy Hook Elementary, Columbine...these events that happen in what are generally considered nice and safe neighborhoods are more concerning to me, because it's not obvious how to avoid them.

Suicide bomber disguised in burqa

Burqa-clad suicide bomber kills 45 in Pakistan

I won't be happy when it comes time to say "I told you so", but I will most certainly say it. Drinking Beverage

Really? Chad. Pakistan. Almost every woman there wears a burka; it's a perfect costume for a suicide bomber. It does not attract any attention, let alone suspicion. Everybody looks like that. We don't even have anything close to that in Dearborn.

I am not saying it's impossible. But a typical suicide bomber's major concern is how to fit in. The less they stand out, the greater their chances of success. Burkas are a poor choice on that basis.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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16-09-2016, 09:22 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-09-2016 08:36 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(16-09-2016 08:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  Suicide bomber disguised in burqa

Burqa-clad suicide bomber kills 45 in Pakistan

I won't be happy when it comes time to say "I told you so", but I will most certainly say it. Drinking Beverage

Really? Chad. Pakistan. Almost every woman there wears a burka; it's a perfect costume for a suicide bomber. It does not attract any attention, let alone suspicion. Everybody looks like that. We don't even have anything close to that in Dearborn.

I am not saying it's impossible. But a typical suicide bomber's major concern is how to fit in. The less they stand out, the greater their chances of success. Burkas are a poor choice on that basis.

If someone wants to fit in in western society, she won't be wearing a burqa.

Allowing the burqa to become commonplace provides greater opportunity for misuse.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(15-09-2016 08:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 11:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  Because if fucking *stockings* are allowed, people up to no good can disguise themselves. I draw the line at government interference in freedom of expression, after reasonable limits have been met, such as uncovering the face on request by an officer of the law. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

Stockings? WTF?




Just helping. Drinking Beverage

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16-09-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Muslim girl compares Switzerland to Saudi Arabia
(16-09-2016 09:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2016 08:36 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Really? Chad. Pakistan. Almost every woman there wears a burka; it's a perfect costume for a suicide bomber. It does not attract any attention, let alone suspicion. Everybody looks like that. We don't even have anything close to that in Dearborn.

I am not saying it's impossible. But a typical suicide bomber's major concern is how to fit in. The less they stand out, the greater their chances of success. Burkas are a poor choice on that basis.

If someone wants to fit in in western society, she won't be wearing a burqa.

I use fitting in to mean maintaining a high level of anonymity in a crowd, rather than in the sense of assimilating into mainstream culture. By this usage, a Russian(without a burqa and no western culture) will fit anonymously into a typical crowd on Michigan Avenue. A person with a burqa, or even just an American Arab with a beard, while not unusual, will not be so anonymous. My real point was anonymity and I should have stressed that.

(16-09-2016 09:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  Allowing the burqa to become commonplace provides greater opportunity for misuse.

Agreed. But is it really becoming commonplace?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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