Muslim outrage at a billboard
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09-06-2017, 01:20 AM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(08-06-2017 11:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I might agree with some points made about billboards perhaps not being the most couth method of making an argument. But it's a thing and we're talking about it so what the fuck, you know? It's either this or Trump, and I need a distraction from that shit.
I have no problems us in this forum discussing the points in the billboard. My stance is that the billboard itself ought to be taken down.
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09-06-2017, 08:29 AM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(09-06-2017 01:20 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 11:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I might agree with some points made about billboards perhaps not being the most couth method of making an argument. But it's a thing and we're talking about it so what the fuck, you know? It's either this or Trump, and I need a distraction from that shit.
I have no problems us in this forum discussing the points in the billboard. My stance is that the billboard itself ought to be taken down.

I disagree. Freedom of speech is freedom of all speech. Whether it is hateful, bigoted, accurate, informational or inflamatory, it doesn't matter. If you don't like the message, keep your eyes on the road or out the other window. If you are too sensitive and insecure about your own religious beliefs then the problem lies within you not the billboard. In order for freedom of speech to be effective, it cannot be watered down or have exceptions beyond those that already exist.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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09-06-2017, 08:29 AM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(08-06-2017 11:27 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  And you'd have to be pretty dead set in a chosen narrative to disregard everything said in this thread to point out a view that absolutely no one has had thus far. Nobody is disputing the fact that calling Mohamed a rapist is...maybe slightly vexing to those who practice the Muslim faith.

This X 1000.
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09-06-2017, 08:36 AM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(07-06-2017 03:20 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 11:16 AM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  IOW, if you reject xtians when they claim all atheists are evil and immoral because of Pol Pot, Stalin, etc you can't say that Islam is religion of violence based on the actions of a minority of practitioners without being a flaming hypocrite.

Oh yes we can, it is not hypocritical at all. Atheism is not an ideology unto itself. It is merely a denial of the unproven assertion that there are deities. It requires no adherence to any specific ideology or belief system, political or otherwise.

Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. may have been atheists, or may have advocated for atheistic states/authorities - but they were not absent an ideology; their ideology WAS Communism. Most Communists may very well be atheists, but being Communist is not in any way a requirement of being an atheist. And when Communist regimes subjugated or repressed their people it was for the defense and furtherance of Communism, not atheism.

Exactly. You have it, but still miss the point. Try substituting Muslims and terrorists in the same phrase above and see what happens.

" Most Communists may very well be atheists, but being Communist is not in any way a requirement of being an atheist. And when Communist regimes subjugated or repressed their people it was for the defense and furtherance of Communism, not atheism."

" Most terrorists may very well be Muslims, but being a terrorist is not in any way a requirement of being a Muslim. And when terrorist regimes subjugated or repressed their people it was for the defense and furtherance of terrorism, not Islam."
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09-06-2017, 08:42 AM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(09-06-2017 08:36 AM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 03:20 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Oh yes we can, it is not hypocritical at all. Atheism is not an ideology unto itself. It is merely a denial of the unproven assertion that there are deities. It requires no adherence to any specific ideology or belief system, political or otherwise.

Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. may have been atheists, or may have advocated for atheistic states/authorities - but they were not absent an ideology; their ideology WAS Communism. Most Communists may very well be atheists, but being Communist is not in any way a requirement of being an atheist. And when Communist regimes subjugated or repressed their people it was for the defense and furtherance of Communism, not atheism.

Exactly. You have it, but still miss the point. Try substituting Muslims and terrorists in the same phrase above and see what happens.

" Most Communists may very well be atheists, but being Communist is not in any way a requirement of being an atheist. And when Communist regimes subjugated or repressed their people it was for the defense and furtherance of Communism, not atheism."

" Most terrorists may very well be Muslims, but being a terrorist is not in any way a requirement of being a Muslim. And when terrorist regimes subjugated or repressed their people it was for the defense and furtherance of terrorism, not Islam."

Keep in mind that marxism-leninism was it's own belief system, just another religion. At least up to Brezhnev reign where revolutionary fervor was changed into bureaucratic routine and rote repetition. Therefore atheists are in no way guilty crimes of bolsheviks and other "communists".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-06-2017, 02:26 PM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(09-06-2017 08:29 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 01:20 AM)Stevil Wrote:  I have no problems us in this forum discussing the points in the billboard. My stance is that the billboard itself ought to be taken down.

I disagree. Freedom of speech is freedom of all speech. Whether it is hateful, bigoted, accurate, informational or inflamatory, it doesn't matter. If you don't like the message, keep your eyes on the road or out the other window. If you are too sensitive and insecure about your own religious beliefs then the problem lies within you not the billboard. In order for freedom of speech to be effective, it cannot be watered down or have exceptions beyond those that already exist.
As a member of a community, I do not want billboards up in my community attacking groups of people. I want people to feel welcome. I like diversity. Muslims are no different to Christians, in my view. They are not dangerous people, not people to be scared of.
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09-06-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(09-06-2017 02:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:29 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I disagree. Freedom of speech is freedom of all speech. Whether it is hateful, bigoted, accurate, informational or inflamatory, it doesn't matter. If you don't like the message, keep your eyes on the road or out the other window. If you are too sensitive and insecure about your own religious beliefs then the problem lies within you not the billboard. In order for freedom of speech to be effective, it cannot be watered down or have exceptions beyond those that already exist.
As a member of a community, I do not want billboards up in my community attacking groups of people. I want people to feel welcome. I like diversity. Muslims are no different to Christians, in my view. They are not dangerous people, not people to be scared of.

There's a nuance here that's being missed. I don't think anyone is saying the billboard should be illegal, or that the people who put it up should be able to charged with a crime. That's not to say that it's not in very bad taste and designed specifically to be hurtful to a subset of the population. Much like putting up a billboard that says "Coons - go back to Africa where you came from " or something similarly offensive.

Freedom of speech allows the billboard to be put up. Common decency would say it shouldn't be.
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09-06-2017, 05:18 PM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 05:21 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
^In post 28 I briefly mentioned it but this I again completely agree with. The example of some normal, decent, liberal muslim parent, having to have a conversation with their small child, that should be reserved for College or University intellectual circles, because of a billboard, was a great example.

There is a time and a place. That was not it.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
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09-06-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
I feel like this sub-forum needs a break from religious debate for a second. Tongue

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~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
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10-06-2017, 01:48 AM
RE: Muslim outrage at a billboard
(07-06-2017 06:17 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  The context argument is bullshit anyway.

It doesn't matter if the believer you're talking to actually believes that one should be put to death for working on the Sabbath, or for cursing their parents. The god they believe in in the bible they believe in actually commanded that to happen at one time. It's supposedly the same timeless god who never changes, so whether said believer believes it or not is again...irrelevant.

This is why I hate dogma so much. It's ridiculous that someone has to revere and endorse the whole book, even when they blatantly disagree with parts of it. They can't just come out and say, "This bit is morally corrupt, so I ignore it" or "These are just stories, you're not meant to take them so seriously". They have to defend it somehow.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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