Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
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08-02-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
To some extent the legend of what they say they believe connects to that same, deity. The so called God of Abraham.

Though really the Muslim god is a deity branched off from some middle eastern pantheon of gods, like a moon god or something at that point, just as the Hebrew God is really a couple of different (Yahweh/El) gods based off the Canaanite and other Semitic area war gods.

So they actually aren't really the same god, as in god concept.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-02-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
(06-02-2016 10:15 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Yup, same alleged god, just has different racing stripes in each case, and the different stripes lead to hatred. Pfff.

Red dwarf covers this brilliantly when the cat race goes to war over whether Lister wore a red or blue hat. I see no difference.

Or of course, from the best film ever, do you follow the gourd or discard the sandal?
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09-02-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
I use Feuerbach's method when looking at "gods".

Feuerbach developed what he calls the "true or anthropological essence of religion." Treating of God in his various aspects "as a being of the understanding," "as a moral being or law," "as love" and so on. Feuerbach talks of how humankind is equally a conscious being, more so than God because humans have placed upon God the ability of understanding. Humans contemplate many things and in doing so they become acquainted with themselves. Feuerbach shows that in every aspect God corresponds to some feature or need of human nature. As he states,


"In the consciousness of the infinite, the conscious subject has for his object the infinity of his own nature."

Instead, Feuerbach concludes, "If man is to find contentment in God," he claims, "he must find himself in God."

Thus God is nothing else than human: he is, so to speak, the outward projection of a human's inward nature.


I live in a Muslim country and I don't find there to be anything different between the way Muslims interact and behave from the way Jewish people behave. They are, in my view, the same religion with very little real difference. The god is a reflection of the nature of these people. Here, they are selfish, self centred, largely dishonest in their dealings with each other, uncaring about the fate of other people, unless related to them. They conceive of themselves as being at the centre of everything, nothing else but their own religion and culture matters and they take no interest in other cultures or religion, since their's is the only one that counts, since their god spoke to them and told them so.

None of them have read in great detail their own religious book and if they have, they have different interpretations of it. The devout ones wear beanies, they have a chanter who shouts at them from the top of a tower. They don't eat port, they don't drink alcohol, they observe ritualistic holidays and think that fasting or going somewhere special makes them special. In short, they are obsessed with outward piety but inwardly have few if any morally appealing characteristics.

They both think that Abraham deciding not to sacrifice his son was a major event which shows something.

Both these religions, in Feuerbach's terms, cast these attributes onto a "god" figure. So, not only is the god the same in literary and historical terms because Islam simply provided a book to the monotheistic Abrahamists of the region, but the principles, ethics and rituals are the same.

Christianity, on the other hand, comes to us via the Romans, who had been influenced by Epicurus and his rationalism. They and the Greeks had developed notions of moral and political conduct which centred around the common good and reason and Christianity puts the "logos" as its "god" which then leads to the rational morality of Christianity based on the precept, "do unto others as you would have others do unto you". As such, (ignoring the fairy tales which it uses to promote the religion) it is a wholly different religion with a wholly different "god" because it casts a different idea of being human onto the "god" concept.
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13-02-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
historically speaking, yes.

as far as I know, the old testiment (Christians) used to be the tora (jews), and Islam is Christianity, with some kind of "bonus" (the Qoran).

The best thing about atheism is, since it's a LACK of belief, it can't be wrong.

The worst thing about atheism is, since it's a LACK of belief, it can't be right.
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13-02-2016, 07:59 AM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
(06-02-2016 07:58 PM)Abdul Alhazred Wrote:  It is a meaningless question unless said deity actually exists. Otherwise, it's different figments of different imaginations. Likewise, any two people sitting next to each other in shul, church, masjid, etc.

Let's pin it down further:

The Muslim one doesn't have a son.
The Jewish one doesn't have a mother.

Angel

No two theists worship the same God precisely because it is a product of the imagination. No two Christians worship the same god,no two Muslims, no two Jews, no two mithraists.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-02-2016, 01:16 AM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
I'm fond of saying, "Christians, Jews, and Muslims are like impetuous children arguing over the details of their father's personality," but I'm reconsidering that opinion after reading some of the testimony from our Muslim commentators.

The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. – Carl Sagan
Sōla vēritās sancta in philosophiā nātūrālī est absentia vēritātum sanctārum.
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστίν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις.
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16-02-2016, 04:24 AM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2016 05:04 AM by FreeBeer.)
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
(08-02-2016 12:22 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Muslims, on the other hand, don't read their own Koran so they sure as f don't read the New Testament so they have absolutely no idea what Christianity is about. They just hear that Westerners are all Christian, that Westerners are a bunch of bastards who don't like Muslims and they figure that Christianity is a murderous religion because it has to be, since all religion is like Islam, bloodthirsty and barbaric.

So, what we have is two solitudes. People in two different religions who think, on the one hand, that religion is about peace so all religion is ok, and on the other, that all religion is bloodthirsty.

It's an impossible situation for world peace in the short to middle term because Muslims don't read anything about other relgions and are told what to think, since it's a cult.

I can tell you from experience of being Christian and interacting with them that most of them do not read the bible either...Facepalm and apart from some stories which are well known, ppl have no idea what the book contains.

Ppl just parrot what they are told by church, priest, media and politicians. I know, because I asked before I started reading. I was actually amazed that Christians do not read it. I thought I was the lazy guy.

Don't expect them to read the Koran either and fundamentalist Christians fit your description as well.

“Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.” ― Mark Twain
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16-02-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Muslims, Christians, Jews -- Worshiping the same God?
(16-02-2016 04:24 AM)FreeBeer Wrote:  I can tell you from experience of being Christian and interacting with them that most of them do not read the bible either...Facepalm

Can't blame them. Bible isn't something that I consider worth reading. If I want interesting fiction I have Silmarillion.

(16-02-2016 04:24 AM)FreeBeer Wrote:  and apart from some stories which are well known, ppl have no idea what the book contains.

And such lack of knowledge is the reason for thinking that Bible is cornerstone of morality.

(16-02-2016 04:24 AM)FreeBeer Wrote:  Ppl just parrot what they are told by church, priest, media and politicians. I know, because I asked before I started reading. I was actually amazed that Christians do not read it. I thought I was the lazy guy.

I see nothing surprising in fact that people don't read Bible. It's a sign of belonging nothing else I would say. It's violent fairy tale and not everyone like such.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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