Must We Always Forgive?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-11-2012, 10:44 AM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
Pfft.. forget and forgive .. sure some things you can forgive... but other things there needs to be retribution..
Do unto others as they have done unto you right? We all know where we've read that one...



We all must use our anger... let the hate flow.....




Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like ddrew's post
21-11-2012, 10:55 AM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
'Postponement of the inevitable' was forgiving in my family.

Do I forgive the way I used to? No. It barely resembles it, and it isn't simple.

I tried the whole self-forgiving thing and it didn't work out. Instead, I accept reality the best I can. It sucks sometimes, but what doesn't?

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 11:03 AM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
Our mistakes are what make us into better people, and learning from those mistakes and not making the same mistakes again is how we all progress, consider what would happen in a world where there was no forgiveness. What motivation would anyone have to better themselves if they are never forgiven for past mistakes.

True it can be the hardest thing in the world to forgive especially when the person you need to forgive has hurt you deeply but this starts with forgiving yourself for your own mistakes, you are human just like everyone else.

Forgiveness is an expression of love and to be able to give love we first must be able to love ourselves.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
(21-11-2012 11:03 AM)Rum Wrote:  Our mistakes are what make us into better people, and learning from those mistakes and not making the same mistakes again is how we all progress, consider what would happen in a world where there was no forgiveness. What motivation would anyone have to better themselves if they are never forgiven for past mistakes.

True it can be the hardest thing in the world to forgive especially when the person you need to forgive has hurt you deeply but this starts with forgiving yourself for your own mistakes, you are human just like everyone else.

Forgiveness is an expression of love and to be able to give love we first must be able to love ourselves.
I love myself quite a bit Big Grin

That's precisely why I have such trouble forgiving those who have wronged me.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 11:45 AM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
(20-11-2012 10:05 PM)kpax Wrote:  When I was a Christian I almost felt obligated to forgive those who did me wrong. Now I no longer feel that obligation.

Maybe in cases where it's better to forgive than to harbor things to save a friendship, relationship or relations with a family member but what about in instances when the person is the type to completely walk all over you over and over again or take advantage of you?

Would it be okay not to forgive?
Must we always forgive? Hell no! For minor transgressions, I believe it's better to forgive, but someone walking all over you again and again deserves no respect or forgiveness whatsoever.

Forgiveness is for people that have some regret for their offense to you or for minor things from people close to you that are worth dismissing for the sake of the relationship even if they have no remorse. Otherwise, forgiveness isn't deserved and I think it's fine to withhold it.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:00 PM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
Hey, Misanthrope.

I think that what you said about powerlessness was really insightful. Rollo May speaks about powerlessness at length in his book Love and Will. One of his great insights is the idea of false empowerment, not through self-empowerment, but through domination of the other. We "feel" empowered, but we are not. But it's attractive because despite being false and ignoring the fundamental issue, feeling that way feels better than feeling powerless. I think that the example you gave is a fantastic example of the idea of false empowerment.

Hey, Chas.

What would you say if I suggested that forgiveness and reconciliation are not unilateral processes? Ie, accepting your boss' behaviour is one thing, but forgiveness and reconciliation can only come in partnership with him. Also, that perhaps acceptance is simply a form of inaction and apathy and is actually disempowering.

Hey, Rum.

Amen on the bold type.

I think that what we're really talking about when we're talking about forgiveness is the reparation of damaged relationships.

In human relations they say that trust is easy to lose but difficult to build. Rebuilding lost trust is difficult.

I spoke about restorative justice in another thread. The focus in restorative justice is rebuilding trust, repairing harm and restoring relationships.

I think that an unwillingness to forgive is the result of a desire for punishment. The idea is that the transgressor deserves punishment, not forgiveness. There's no point in attempting to repair the relationship because the other person no longer has value. 'Why would I want to associate with them after what they did?"

One of the amazing things about the Truth and Reconcilliation Commission in South Africa was the idea of repairing the relationships between people who had been brutalised and those that had brutalised them. I think the point of departure for there logic was that if the people of the country were to move forward together that all of the relationships needed to be repaired and that that was more important than retribution.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
(21-11-2012 12:00 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Misanthrope.

I think that what you said about powerlessness was really insightful. Rollo May speaks about powerlessness at length in his book Love and Will. One of his great insights is the idea of false empowerment, not through self-empowerment, but through domination of the other. We "feel" empowered, but we are not. But it's attractive because despite being false and ignoring the fundamental issue, feeling that way feels better than feeling powerless. I think that the example you gave is a fantastic example of the idea of false empowerment.
Very true. Then again, it makes one feel empowered, and they go on to live their lives accordingly. So, for all intents and purposes, could it not be said that they really are empowered, even if they don't have a stamped certificate to make it official? These are simply chemical reactions, after all. If one gets the specific reaction they're looking for, I'd say it doesn't really matter how they got it. The brain makes it legit to them, and they go on to live their lives accordingly.

The false has just become legitimate. Drinking Beverage

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:16 PM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
Hey, Misanthrope.

No. Rollo May is a PhD and can explain it better than I can and I don't have my copy of the book with me, but they still don't actually have any control of their lives. They are dominating someone else. It satisfies a gap (satisfies is too strong a word because it's not an equivalency) but it doesn't solve the issue. It's not "just as good". In fact it's worse because one stops trying to fix the real issue.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
(21-11-2012 12:00 PM)Ghost Wrote:  What would you say if I suggested that forgiveness and reconciliation are not unilateral processes? Ie, accepting your boss' behaviour is one thing, but forgiveness and reconciliation can only come in partnership with him. Also, that perhaps acceptance is simply a form of inaction and apathy and is actually disempowering.

I specifically denied the apathy and disempowerment. Once one has accepted that the other is what he is, one can move on to action.

I did not speak to forgiveness and reconciliation.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-11-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Must We Always Forgive?
I usually forgive easily. I may take precautions that whatever infringement doesn't happen again, but I forgive.

There is only one person I never forgave and that is my own brother. I don't care to go into what he did, but it was disgusting to say the least, and he was an asshole and I never forgave him, not when he was alive and not now that he has been dead for years.

So you never know, even someone as kind as I can be does hit their breaking point sometimes.

He got away easy dying, I feel like he just copped out. Just for him, I wish there was a hell. So there. The sweet lady has a dark side.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  What else did Jesus forgive us for? ashley.hunt60 3 766 13-08-2012 11:36 PM
Last Post: BennyTheAwesome
  God will not forgive richard dawkins? James The Brit 16 1,412 02-08-2011 11:00 AM
Last Post: James The Brit
Forum Jump: